GenoPro Support Forum

1)PossessiveProperNoun, e.g. Robert's father
This function is not at all suited for French translation. Probably Dan is working on this particular problem.
Anyway, in FR we say: Le père de Robert.
When the ProperName starts with a vowel or an H, i.e. "AEIOUYH", the preposition "de" changes into "d'" as in "Le père d'Yvonne" or "Le père d'Hector".
As now, it is impossible to, for example, translate PhParents without modifying Lang.vbs.
2)"his" and "her" as in "His father"
In French we're using the possessive adjectives "son" and "sa" which are in agreement with the nouns gender but not in agreement with the Ind gender. For example, "His or Her father" will always be "Son père" because "son", generally speaking, is used with a masculine noun and "sa" for feminine noun, as in "Sa mère" (His/Her mother). Same for "son grand-père", "sa grand-mère", "son parrain" (his/her godfather), "sa marraine" (his/her godmother).
Please note that "son" is also used with a feminin noun starting with a vowel, as in "Son occupation est ...".
"Ses" is always used for plurial as in "Ses parents" or "Ses grand-parents paternels/maternels".
3)<PhCollectionMFU>
For info: theoretically the word "named" should be translatable in agreement with the siblings qty and genders/genders scenarios, i.e. "prénommé" (masc singular), "prénommés" (all masc plurial or a mixture of masc and fem as the masc takes precedence over the fem), "prénommée" (fem singular) or "prénommées" (all fem plurial).
At the moment, it's not possible to translate "named". I however managed a correct phrase substituting "named" by an invariable French expression: "se prénommant", but I believe it's not the solution.
4)<PhChildRank>
As now, StrChildRank and StrChildRank1 are not at all suitable. A few FR translation examples:
- An Ind_M first in line out of 4 children: Il est l'ainé des 4 enfants.
- An Ind_F first in line: Elle est l'ainée des 4 ....
- An Ind_M last in line: Il est le dernier des ...
- An Ind_F last in line: Elle est la dernière des ...
- An Ind_M 2nd in line: Il est le deuxième des ...
- An Ind_F 2nd in line: Elle est la deuxième des ...
The problem is to fit in "ainé/ainée", "le dernier/la dernière" and the articles "le" or "la" associated with the intermediate places.
Dan to possibly find another solution/translation if required.
5)PlacePrefix
Thank you Ron for the added "au Mans" routine but my post 15331 was only to pinpoint a minor particularity for some Places Towns Names.
The PlacePrefix problem is far from over because in French, we're using many prepositions, all depending on the places. There's may be a grammar rule for this but I don't know it. Anyway, the French language is notorious for always having "exceptions to the rule"!. The prepositions I can think of are:
- à : used mainly for towns and cities: à Paris, à Montreal, à La Rochelle, à Bombay. Also à Bornéo, ...
- à la: used for a few places: à la Martinique, à la Guadeloupe
- en: Used mainly for all continents, some countries and provinces/counties: en Europe, en Afrique, en France, en Angleterre, en Auvergne, en Virginie
- au: used for countries, some towns and provinces/counties: au canada, au paraguay, au Mans, au Massachussetts
- aux: used for a few places: aux Seychelles, aux Açores, aux Etats-Unis
- + other prep mainly for sub-places but also for a few places: dans le (Nebraska)/la/les (Antilles)/un/une (ferme)/des ..., sur le/la (lune)/les/un/une/des ... It's endless really!
So how do you intend to deal with this simple subject?
6) Month short format
I noticed in French, 2 months begin with the same 3 digits: Juin and Juillet (June & July). Could be a bit ambiguous in a short format: Jui 2007! Perhaps Juin could be shorten to Jun?
7) Partner
The word "Partner" cannot be translated in the main title of a Fam. It says for one of my couple: "Jean-Claude Guasp & Partner" despite the translation of the Dic string <Partner T="partenaire"/>.
8) PhThey
This is just an observation: despite the translation of the <They T="Ils"/> string, "They" still appears in the Report. "They" has to be translated again (twice) in the <PhThey> template phrase to get the right report phrase with "Ils ...".
9) PhSR & PhER
As we have 2 genders in FR, i.e. masc and fem, I noticed that some nouns within these PhSR and PhER string lists would need to be segregated for translation: e.g. "Neighbour" is, in FR, "un voisin" (for a masc Ind) and "une voisine" for a fem one. "jealous", for example, needs to be translated to "jaloux" (masc) and "jalouse" (fem) based on the {0h} gender. Going a bit further in, depending on the genders of both Inds {0h} & {2h}, there's may even be a need for: a masc singular, a masc plurial, a fem singular and a fem plurial (same as 3 above). Dan to check this.
10) Minor required changes in Dic:
- a <BornAbbr T="b."/> string should be added (similar to <DiedAbbr>. This will entail an extra parameter for <FmtBirth>, <FmtDatesIndividual> and <PedigreeChartDetails>.
- a <NoName_F> string should be added because "Unknown" in FR is "Inconnu" (masc) & "Inconnue" (fem). There may also be a need for a similar <Known_F> string but I didn't see/test it yet in a report. In French, it will cater for "connu" and "connue"
- in <PhFR_Widowed>, I don't think the text "married" is correct.
- in <PhFR_CohabitationAndDecease>, I don't think the text "together together" is correct.
- in <PlaceCategory><Landscape>, Dessert to be changed to Desert.
- in Genopro, I set up a "Know each other" social relation between 2 Inds. During the Rep Gene, I got an error message saying: "Cannot find PhSR_Know" string in Dic.xml. Perhaps it should point to the "acquaintance" string?
11) Untranslatable data
I'm sure you know about this problem. Lets say I've got an Ind born in London with an occupation of mechanic (input in EN). That's fine for the EN report.
I then want to generate an FR report. At the moment, there's no facility for translating the PlacePrefix "in" and the words "London" and "mechanic".
At the moment, the result is:
- Jean-Claude est né à London. This should be: Jean-Claude est né à Londres.
- Sa profession est mechanic. This should be: Sa profession est mécanicien.
Of course, the same problem will apply from an FR input into an EN report.

Keep the good work and Bonne continuation.
JC

Here is my intial response:

being displayed as !

(Maybe masculine and feminine rules are required for some languages.)

Then use the phrase

<PhParents T="{ &#32;}[Le père {!0} {!1} {2h}][[{?2} et sa][{?!2}La] mère[{!2}{!0}] {!4} {5h}]." />

(Maybe a need to extend the Dictionary PnP phrases to include the object gender as well e.g. PnP_F_M )

<PhCollectionMFU T="{0}[[{?0} et ]{1}][[{?0|1}, et aussi ]{2}][[{?0^1},] prénommé[{?4}e][?5}s] {3h}]" />

I will provide for optional f. forms of "Oldest', "Youngest" & "Ordinal_n" Dictionary entries and use StrDicMFU("Ordinal_" & nChildRank, strGender) in Lang.vbs instead of Dic.Ordinal(nChildRank)

Not a simple solution! But
You have a choice of prepositions in the Place Property Dialogue and these are translated via PlacePrefix in the Dictionary.
I intend to extend PlacePrefixDefault in the Dictionary so that it is based on Category as per Places and Locations - Narrative Prefix

I am working on an extension to the NameDictionary to allow specification of exceptions to Noun cases such as possessive and 'locative' forms, the latter also dealing with prepositions. This can also provide for 'base' or 'root' forms of surnames so that different spellings can be grouped and counted together in an index.

I'll correct these.

The extended NameDictionary will could deal with simple Place names (but not their addresses) but could be extended to Occupation Titles.

Free text such as Comments require the compiler to create multiple versions of the text, one for each Language required. I could cater for this as part of the 'Custom Markup' prossessing if the built-in facility is some way off.

I found another problem: order of words. This time is to avoid modif of Util.vbs.

I translated in FR, the <Individual T=...> (the one not within <SourceMediaType> and <HeaderAdditionalInformation T=...> strings in Dic.
I got this:

The words translation is fine but the order of words is not. The subtitle should say something like: "Information additionnelle sur individuel".
I managed to trace the code in Util.vbs:
  Report.WriteFormattedLn "<a name='Additional Information'></a><h3 class='xT-i inline'>{&t} {&t}</h3><ul class='xT-h'>", Dic(obj.Class), Dic("HeaderAdditionalInformation")

Switching both "Dic(...)" parameters, will give: "Information additionnelle Individuel".

Still not quite correct because:

1) we're missing the preposition "sur"
 and
2) To avoid further phrases corrections, please also note this typical FR rule: only the 1st common noun (Information in our case) should be capitalized but not all of the words as in EN.

Thank you Ron.
JC

GenoPro will translate the application itself, the report skin is maintain almost 100% by Ron, translation of the "popular" skin will probably be maintained by some user such as Jean-Claude. (More will show up each language).

If the translation is well done and complete, they translation will be included inside GenoPro, other great skin could be include too.

If the number of skin/translation get too big, they will be available as a separate download.

The report generator engine is not likely to change, all the work that is currently done to translate the report in French, Spanish... will be keep and probably be included "as is".

Looks like the '{&t} {&t}' needs to be a Format String in the Dictionary to allow translation. i.e.

Can't do the translation but could be a problem when decimal point is comma. I'll check it out.

I tried the correction shown in your reply 17724 but I got an error when generating the rep.
I changed the syntax from:

..., Util.FirstCharUpperCase(Util.FormatString("FmtAdditionalInformation", LCase(Dic(obj.Class))))

to:

..., Util.StrFirstCharUCase(Dic.FormatString("FmtAdditionalInformation", LCase(Dic(obj.Class))))

and it looks OK.

I'm sorry if I'm pinpointing things bit by bit but I noticed something else:

The need for a <PhTL_Birth_F> and a <PhTL_Died_F> in Dic.

Thank you Ron,
JC


Edited: Monday, May 14, 2007 by jcguasp

No need for 'sorry',  this is exactly the feedback I need to iron out translation issues.

1) <PhEducation>
Presently, the param {7} cannot be translated. Even in EN, the phrase seems strange when "passed" & "graduated" have been selected in genopro:

Looking at the Ind panel Edu tab, I wonder if the "Achievement" field couldn't be deleted because the "passed" option is actually already supported within the "Graduated (passed ..." option in the "Termination" field. If yes, it would then be a matter of adding the option "Failed (Didn't pass the examinations)" in the said "Termination" field and the said "Termination" field may be renamed something like "Termination/Achievement".
Worth to look at.

2) <FmtDateRange>
I noticed In FR, the preposition changes depending on the date type, i.e. d M Y, M Y or Y (for clarity, I only shown d, M & Y as 1 digit):

- <FmtSince> "à partir de {0}" when {0} is in the form of M Y or Y        e.g. à partir de mai 1968/1968
- <FmtSince> "à partir du {0}" when d is within {0}                            e.g. à partir du 12 mai 1968

- <FmtUntil> "jusqu'en {1}" when {1} is in the form of M Y or Y             e.g. jusqu'en mai 1968/1968
- <FmtUntil> "jusqu'au {1}" when d is within {1}                                 e.g. jusqu'au 12 mai 1968

- <FmtFromTo> "de {0} à {1}" when {0} & {1} are M Y or Y                 e.g. de mai 1968/1968 à juin 1975/1975
- <FmtFromTo> "du {0} à {1}" when d is within {0} and {1} is M Y or Y  e.g. du 12 mai 1968 à juin 1975/1975
- <FmtFromTo> "du {0} au {1}" when d is within {0} & {1}                   e.g. du 12 mai 1968 au 15 juin 1975
- <FmtFromTo> "de {0} au {1}" when {0} is M Y or Y and d is within {1} e.g. de mai 1968/1968 au 15 juin 1975

Please note that in some other language(s), a proper segregation may be required for M Y and Y.

3) <PhFamilyWith>
With the Config param fHideFamilyDetails="N" and the Dic <Ordinal_1 T="premier">, I got this:

Not correct. I then changed <Ordinal_1> from "premier" to "première" (because famille is a Fem noun) and added {\U} at start of <PhFamilyWith>. I then got:

Correct. But the question is: Don't we need, within another subtitle or bit of phrase, something starting with "premier"?

Not for translation purposes, but I noticed these small details:

4) on the Timeline, a space should be provided after the occupancies titles (Residence, Address, Work Place, ... ).

5) double space in front of dates as shown:

I checked the various <Fmt...> templates in Dic but I cannot see any double space in them! I wonder if an Ltrim(...) may be required on some fields?

Thank you Ron
JC