By 138298 - Friday, March 3, 2006
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How can I show the date as approximate only? I've tried using abt & c . Is there another way? g_in_ger
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By appleshaw - Saturday, March 4, 2006
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One way round this is to use Ron's gnoutils program and convert dates in the baptism record to a Custom Tag. This can then be displayed on the genogram, although I think it does not yet carry through to the Report Generator.
Baptism year is not always the same as birth year and so this utility allows you to display a date prefixed with C. - which is what you want. I have changed my copy of the utility to show a date as '<1755', on the assumption that birth happens before baptism
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By 138298 - Saturday, March 4, 2006
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Thank you for the suggestion. g_in_ger
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By GenoProSupport - Saturday, March 4, 2006
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I am currently writing the date & time routines for Beta 16. I have reserved some bits (memory) to support date approximation and date ranges.
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By Yehudad - Saturday, March 4, 2006
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GenoProSupport (3/4/2006) I am currently writing the date & time routines for Beta 16. I have reserved some bits (memory) to support date approximation and date ranges.Will your new date & time routings support other calanders?
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By GenoProSupport - Sunday, March 5, 2006
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Yehudad (3/5/2006) Will your new date & time routings support other calanders?The design allows support for multiple calendars. Eventually will be able to pick which calendar to display the date(s).
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By Yehudad - Sunday, March 5, 2006
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Great. I just met yesterday someone that the Hebrew calandar is very important for him in his tree, and I could not tell him if it will be available. Thanks.
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By appleshaw - Sunday, March 5, 2006
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The design allows support for multiple calendars. Eventually will be able to pick which calendar to display the date(s).
Can this also support the genealogical convention used for the Julian calendar, ie 1750/51 for dates in the first quarter of 1751, which were recorded as being in 1750?
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By GenoProSupport - Sunday, March 5, 2006
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The design allows unlimited number of display formats. It is like displaying the number 2006. This number can be displayed in decimal (2006), hexadecimal (7D6), binary (11111010110) or whatever else. The formatting options will be available, and new calendars could be added in the future. I don't know the specifics of each calendar, however I know the date "5 March 2006" has an equivalent for every calendar. Transforming a date to a different calendar is done by performing some arithmetic such as additions, subtractions, multiplications to the days, months and years.
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By appleshaw - Sunday, March 5, 2006
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The problem is to display a date from two calendars - the Julian and Gregorian. This is widely used in genealogical work and several of the genealogical programs can display this format ie 1750/51. All UK related data before 1755 has this problem for the first quarter ie before 25 March. In other countries the change took place at different times. Other calendars may have similar problems.
It may be necessary to transfer this to a text string in a Custom Tag - at least to start with
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By jcmorin - Sunday, March 5, 2006
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By default, all dates entered in GenoPro are assumed to use the Gregorian Calendar, however we have an interface to convert those dates to other calendars. Microsoft standard did a great job for date & time globalization. The Julian Calendar class recognizes only the current era. Unlike the Gregorian calendar, the Julian calendar defines a leap year as a year that is evenly divisible by four with no exceptions; therefore, the calendar is inaccurate by one day every 128 years. A common year has 365 days and a leap year has 366 days. The date January 1, 2001 A.D. in the Gregorian calendar is equivalent to the 19th day of December in the year 2000 A.D. in the Julian calendar. The Hebrew Calendar recognizes two eras: B.C.E. (before the common era) and A.M. (Latin "Anno Mundi", which means "the year of the world"). This implementation of the HebrewCalendar class recognizes only the current era (A.M.) and the Hebrew years 5343 to 5999 (1583 to 2239 in the Gregorian calendar). In every 19-year cycle that ends with a year that is evenly divisible by 19, the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years are leap years. A common year can have from 353 to 355 days, depending on the placement of Jewish holidays. A leap year can have from 383 to 385 days. The Hijri Calendar recognizes one era: A.H. (Latin "Anno Hegirae", which means "the year of the migration," in reference to the migration of Muhammad from Mecca). In every 30-year cycle that ends with a year that is evenly divisible by 30, the 2nd, 5th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, 18th, 21st, 24th, 26th, and 29th years are leap years. A common year has 354 days and a leap year has 355 days. The Japanese Calendar recognizes one era for every emperor's reign. The current era is the Heisei era, which began in the Gregorian calendar year 1989. The era name is typically displayed before the year. For example, the Gregorian calendar year 2001 is the Japanese calendar year Heisei 13. Note that the first year of an era is called "Gannen"; therefore, the Gregorian calendar year 1989 was the Japanese calendar year Heisei Gannen. The date January 1, 2001 A.D. in the Gregorian calendar is equivalent to the first day of Ichigatsu in the year Heisei 13 in the Japanese calendar. The Korean Calendar works exactly like the Gregorian calendar, except that the year and era are different. The date January 1, 2001 A.D. in the Gregorian calendar is equivalent to the first day of January in the year 4334 of the current era in the Korean calendar. The Taiwan Calendar works exactly like the Gregorian calendar, except that the year and era are different. The TaiwanCalendar class recognizes only the current era. The date January 1, 2001 C.E. in the Gregorian calendar is equivalent to the first day of January in the year 90 of the current era in the Taiwan calendar. The ThaiBuddhistCalendar works exactly like the Gregorian calendar, except that the year and era are different. The date January 1, 2001 A.D. in the Gregorian calendar is equivalent to the first day of January in the year 2544 of the current era in the Thai Buddhist calendar.
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By appleshaw - Sunday, March 5, 2006
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I understand that the internal storage is in one format. The problem is that over the years the format has changed.
If you look on the IGI (International Genealogical Index) for John Steere born in 1660 in Sussex there are two dates:-
Birth: 01 MAR 1659
Christening: 11 APR 1660 Rogate, Sussex, England
It appears that the Christening (Baptism) took place 13 months after birth but in fact they were only a month apart.
The conventional genealogical way to express the first date is 1 March 1659/60. Several, but not all, genealogical programs allow the entry of such a date format.
I suspect that other users will have similar but different problems.
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By GenoProSupport - Sunday, March 5, 2006
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The design for the new date format is very flexible and robust. I have a solution in mind for the problem you are describing. Just wait until this feature is out. I won't release GenoPro 2.0 until those problems have been solved. GenoPro is a true multilingual software, and it goes along to support multiple date calendars.
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By fbukolyi - Sunday, March 5, 2006
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Concerning Julian-Gregorian change: not all the countries change at the same time. For example, until the october revolution (1905) Russia did not change (this is why the celebration of the october revolution is 7th of November )
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By GenoProSupport - Tuesday, May 16, 2006
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fbukolyi (3/6/2006)
Concerning Julian-Gregorian change: not all the countries change at the same time. For example, until the october revolution (1905) Russia did not change (this is why the celebration of the october revolution is 7th of November ) You are right, this is a real issue. As a solution, GenoPro uses a proleptic calendar for all dates. It is the responsibility of the user to pick the right calendar before inputting a date from the chosen calendar. If you wish to enter Julian dates, then pick the Julian Calendar. GenoPro will use that calendar until you pick another calendar. For instance, the date December 31, 0099 in the Gregorian calendar is January 2, 0100 in the Julian calendar. In real life, the Gregorian calendar is used for dates on or after October 15, 1582, however you may express any date using the Gregorian calendar - although the Gregorian calendar may not have been the official calendar at that specific date.
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By Yehudad - Monday, June 5, 2006
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The new date support is cool!! I did found a problem, though. The conversion to the Hebrew calander is not working for me. For example - I have someone who died on 30 Nov 1984. Converting to the Hebrew calander with Hebrew (English) is working great. It is converted to 7 Kislev 5745, which is wrong. It suppose to be 6 Kislev 5745. This is the first problem. When I select Hebrew as language what I get is: 7 ספטמבר 5745. The month written in Hebrew is September!! which is not either the original month (November) nor the Hebrew one (Kislev)!
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By GenoProSupport - Tuesday, June 6, 2006
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It is possible the conversion of months is wrong. In fact, I just noticed I forgot the 13th month in the Hebrew calendar . This is really embarassing. Can someone tell me what is the proper date (in the Hebrew calendar) and I will adjust/rotate the months so they appear correct. This is the output from GenoPro: Output from GenoPro Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: יום רביעי, מרץ 11, 5766 Months in the Hebrew calendar: Month #1 (Jan): ינואר Month #2 (Feb): פברואר Month #3 (Mar): מרץ Month #4 (Apr): אפריל Month #5 (May): מאי Month #6 (Jun): יוני Month #7 (Jul): יולי Month #8 (Aug): אוגוסט Month #9 (Sep): ספטמבר Month #10 (Oct): אוקטובר Month #11 (Nov): נובמבר Month #12 (Dec): דצמבר Month #13 (Sol): Yehudad (6/6/2006) I have someone who died on 30 Nov 1984. Converting to the Hebrew calander with Hebrew (English) is working great. It is converted to 7 Kislev 5745, which is wrong. It suppose to be 6 Kislev 5745. The date conversion from Gregorian calendar to Hebrew is not always accurate. Depending on the time of the day, the same date may be span two days in the Hebrew calendar. In the Hebrew calendar, the day starts at sunset (Genesis, Ch.1 v.5); but for lunar-based calendar calculation, the zero-hour used is at 1800h (6 p.m.) civil time, or Jerusalem meridian 2 hours 21 minutes East of Greenwich time. As a result, someone who died after 6 p.m. will not be on the same day on the Gregorian calendar than someone who died in the morning.
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By Yehudad - Tuesday, June 6, 2006
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GenoProSupport (6/6/2006)
This is the output from GenoPro: Output from GenoPro
Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: יום רביעי, מרץ 11, 5766 This is the first mistake. The month is wrong. Today's date in the Hebrew calander is 11 Sivan 5766. What you quoted is right in day and year. The Month which is written is March in Hebrew!! it should be סיון, which is how Sivan written in Hebrew.
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By Yehudad - Tuesday, June 6, 2006
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GenoProSupport (6/6/2006)
It is possible the conversion of months is wrong. In fact, I just noticed I forgot the 13th month in the Hebrew calendar . This is really embarassing. Can someone tell me what is the proper date (in the Hebrew calendar) and I will adjust/rotate the months so they appear correct. This is the output from GenoPro: Output from GenoPro Months in the Hebrew calendar: Month #1 (Jan): ינואר Month #2 (Feb): פברואר Month #3 (Mar): מרץ Month #4 (Apr): אפריל Month #5 (May): מאי Month #6 (Jun): יוני Month #7 (Jul): יולי Month #8 (Aug): אוגוסט Month #9 (Sep): ספטמבר Month #10 (Oct): אוקטובר Month #11 (Nov): נובמבר Month #12 (Dec): דצמבר Month #13 (Sol): This is the second mistake. You have the Gregorian months with their translation to Hebrew. The correct one should be: Month #1 (Tishrei): תשרי Month #2 (Cheshvan): חשוון Month #3 (Kislev): כסלו Month #4 (Tevet): טבת Month #5 (Shevat): שבט Month #6 (Adar): אדר Month #7 (Nisan): ניסן Month #8 (Iyar): אייר Month #9 (Sivan): סיוון Month #10 (Tammuz): תמוז Month #11 (Av): אב Month #12 (Elul): אלול As you saw the Hebrew calander is very problematic. Rosh Hashana which is the holiday of the start of the year is in Tishrei (Month #1), but it is actually Month #7 according to the Bible. The first month is Nisan (Month #7). From what I see, I can only guess that the translation you used is using the Bible method. By that today's month is Sivan which is the 3rd from Nisan, by using the Gregorian calander and it's 3rd month you got March!! Therefore, I think that the correct order should be: Month #1 (Nisan): ניסן Month #2 (Iyar): אייר Month #3 (Sivan): סיוון Month #4 (Tammuz): תמוז Month #5 (Av): אב Month #6 (Elul): אלול Month #7 (Tishrei): תשרי Month #8 (Cheshvan): חשוון Month #9 (Kislev): כסלו Month #10 (Tevet): טבת Month #11 (Shevat): שבט Month #12 (Adar): אדר Month #13 (Adar II): אדר ב in case of a 13 months year Month #12 becomes Adar I - אדר א. Hope that this is not too confusing...
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By Yehudad - Tuesday, June 6, 2006
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GenoProSupport (6/6/2006) The date conversion from Gregorian calendar to Hebrew is not always accurate. Depending on the time of the day, the same date may be span two days in the Hebrew calendar. In the Hebrew calendar, the day starts at sunset (Genesis, Ch.1 v.5); but for lunar-based calendar calculation, the zero-hour used is at 1800h (6 p.m.) civil time, or Jerusalem meridian 2 hours 21 minutes East of Greenwich time. As a result, someone who died after 6 p.m. will not be on the same day on the Gregorian calendar than someone who died in the morning.I'm well aware of that calculation. Can you add a checkbox for after sunset indication? If this checkbox is checked then you take the following Hebrew date. Thus, 6 Jun 2006 without the checkbox checked will be 11 Sivan 5766 and with the checkbox checked it will be 12 Sivan 5766?
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By GenoProSupport - Tuesday, June 6, 2006
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I now have the following output:Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: 5766 סיוון 11 DayOfWeek: יום רביעי Months in the Hebrew calendar: Month #1 (Jan): ניסן Month #2 (Feb): אייר Month #3 (Mar): סיוון Month #4 (Apr): תמוז Month #5 (May): אב Month #6 (Jun): אלול Month #7 (Jul): תשרי Month #8 (Aug): חשוון Month #9 (Sep): כסלו Month #10 (Oct): טבת Month #11 (Nov): שבט Month #12 (Dec): אדר Month #13 (Sol): אדרב GenoPro will eventually support time (hours & minutes), so there will be no need to have a checkbox to specify if the event occurred before or after the sunset.
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By Yehudad - Tuesday, June 6, 2006
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GenoProSupport (6/6/2006) I now have the following output: Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: 5766 סיוון 11 DayOfWeek: יום רביעי This is the correct Hebrew date. GenoProSupport (6/6/2006)
Months in the Hebrew calendar: Month #1 (Jan): ניסן Month #2 (Feb): אייר Month #3 (Mar): סיוון Month #4 (Apr): תמוז Month #5 (May): אב Month #6 (Jun): אלול Month #7 (Jul): תשרי Month #8 (Aug): חשוון Month #9 (Sep): כסלו Month #10 (Oct): טבת Month #11 (Nov): שבט Month #12 (Dec): אדר Month #13 (Sol): אדרב What is the meaning of the month in brackets?
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By Yehudad - Tuesday, June 6, 2006
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GenoProSupport (6/6/2006) GenoPro will eventually support time (hours & minutes), so there will be no need to have a checkbox to specify if the event occurred before or after the sunset.What if I don't know the time? I think it will be easier on you if you have the checkbox. Time can not tell you if it is before or after sunset. For example 19:00 on winter is after sunset while on summer it is still day. You will have to know the exact time of sunset to know if you have to change dates.
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By GenoProSupport - Thursday, June 8, 2006
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Can someone confirm the date conversions from Gregorian to Hebrew are correct at page http://familytrees.genopro.com/DateConvertCalendar.aspx?
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By Yehudad - Thursday, June 8, 2006
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Yes the date as it appears in the page you mentioned is correct, in the Gregorian and the Hebrew calandar. Just Remember that after sunset the Hebrew calander will advance to the next day.
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By GenoProSupport - Friday, June 16, 2006
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After revising my code, came to the conclusion the Hebrewmonths were not rotated properly. Is this correct? Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Friday, June 16, 2006 Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: 5766 סיוון 20 DayOfWeek: יום שישי Months in the Hebrew calendar: Month #1 (Nisan): ניסן Month #2 (Iyyar): אייר Month #3 (Sivan): סיוון Month #4 (Tamuz): תמוז Month #5 (Av): אב Month #6 (Elul): אלול Month #7 (Tishrei): תשרי Month #8 (Cheshvan): חשוון Month #9 (Kislev): כסלו Month #10 (Tevet): טבת Month #11 (Shvat): שבט Month #12 (AdarI): אדר Month #13 (AdarII): אדרב
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By Yehudad - Friday, June 16, 2006
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GenoProSupport (6/16/2006)
After revising my code, came to the conclusion the Hebrewmonths were not rotated properly. Is this correct? Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Friday, June 16, 2006 Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: 5766 סיוון 20 DayOfWeek: יום שישי Yes. This is the correct date.
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By GenoProSupport - Friday, June 16, 2006
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Yehudad (6/16/2006) Yes. This is the correct date.Great. The changes will be in Beta 16d.
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By Yehudad - Friday, June 16, 2006
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GenoProSupport (6/16/2006) Great. The changes will be in Beta 16d.Will this fix will solve the problem I have with converting Gregorian years to Hebrew years?
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By GenoProSupport - Friday, June 16, 2006
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Yehudad (6/16/2006)
[Will this fix will solve the problem I have with converting Gregorian years to Hebrew years? Nope. What you are asking is nearly impossible because the date parser is not capable to recognize two years within the same date. If you enter a year in a given calendar, GenoPro will do its best to approximate this year in a different calendar, however it may not be the exact year because some years to "overlap". By the way, I have fixed the problem of a date being one day off, from the Gregorian calendar to the Hebrew calendar. I am using the page http://familytrees.genopro.com/DateConvertCalendar.aspx as the reference.
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By Yehudad - Friday, June 16, 2006
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GenoProSupport (6/16/2006)
Nope. What you are asking is nearly impossible because the date parser is not capable to recognize two years within the same date. If you enter a year in a given calendar, GenoPro will do its best to approximate this year in a different calendar, however it may not be the exact year because some years to "overlap". By the way, I have fixed the problem of a date being one day off, from the Gregorian calendar to the Hebrew calendar. I am using the page http://familytrees.genopro.com/DateConvertCalendar.aspx as the reference. There are more than a few cases in a family tree that you only have a year as approximate date. GenoPro must have some logic to deal with such dates. In my example I told you that the conversion resulted in -262 which is simply an error. It means that the calander is not working. If you try to convert just a year in the page http://familytrees.genopro.com/DateConvertCalendar.aspx you will get an application error. As I said in that discussion GenoPro need to find a way to convert, otherwise many people in the family tree will have meaningless numbers as dates. As I said there 2006 can be 5766 as it is the Hebrew year for most of 2006. Only in September/October it changes to 5767. So 5766 can be the Hebrew year for 2006, when only a year is the date. The same applies to any other year.
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By GenoProSupport - Sunday, June 18, 2006
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GenoPro does not support negative years yet. If you switch calendars, make sure the dates range from 0001 AD to 9999 AD in the Gregorian calendar.
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By Yehudad - Sunday, June 18, 2006
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GenoProSupport (6/18/2006) GenoPro does not support negative years yet. If you switch calendars, make sure the dates range from 0001 AD to 9999 AD in the Gregorian calendar.It is!!! I sent you an email in this regard. I do have a valid year! I have someone who was born Abt 1980. This is what I have, just the year (approximate age). The conversion is to a negative number! Try entering just 1980 in the page you mentioned without any day or month - you will get an application error!
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By GenoProSupport - Sunday, June 18, 2006
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You are right. Entering Abt 1980 (Gregorian) gives ~5740 (Hebrew) on the debug build, however on the release version, the result is a negative number. I spend 99.9% of my time testing the debug version because it has internal sanity checks for data integrity. This time, it is the opposite; the debug build works fine and the release version doesn't work. I am investigating this.
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By GenoProSupport - Sunday, June 18, 2006
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I found what the problem was. Somehow the compiler optimized the code by calling the functions in a different order.c = FunctionA() + FunctionB() |
On my debug build, FunctionA was called before FunctionB , however on the release build (the one you got), it is FunctionB which was called first, followed by FunctionA . Well, in the case of converting dates to a different calendar, FunctionA may change some values for FunctionB . Calling FunctionB first produces the wrong result. The result was a garbage date value. If you download Beta 16e, the date conversion whould work fine.
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By Yehudad - Sunday, June 18, 2006
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Thanks a lot. It looks much better
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By appleshaw - Friday, June 30, 2006
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Not sure whether to report this here as a feature, or a new topic under bug.
If you have a range of dates for people, some are under Julian calendar but in UK this was replaced in 1754 (or 5 - can not remember at present) So after that date entries were Gregorian. It does not seem possible to have different calendars on the same GenoMap or even the same file. I am trying to alter existing data, not enter new information
Second I have found that entering 'Abt 1562' is converted to ~1562 in the Birth/Properties table but the display only shows 1562.
Finally if I use the year 1562/63 in the table it is accepted, sort of, in that the table shows 1562/63 against a pink background but nothing appears on the display
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By GenoProSupport - Sunday, July 2, 2006
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The current design allows only one calendar at the time. GenoPro cannot display a date in Gregorian and Hebrew calendar simultaneously.
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By eu7 - Monday, December 4, 2006
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Aren't there simple programs out there that quickly calculate the appropriate Hebrew date from a Gregorian date? I agree that some kind of "after sunset" check would be necessary. BTW the thirteenth month is Adar II which comes about every few years, seemingly in no simple order, so the above program is necessary. Uri
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By rdn - Tuesday, December 5, 2006
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Actually there is an order for the thirteenth month. It appears 7 times in 19 years. Check out the article in the NYT for a description of an ancient device that calculated this lunar year ( ~ 354 days) vs. solar year (~ 365.25 days) correction: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/30/science/30compute.html
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