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Order of children on the report


https://support.genopro.com/Topic14598.aspx
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By beraha - Tuesday, November 21, 2006
There are cases that a person has 3 children but we don't have any information who is the oldest one, who is the second oldest one and who is the youngest one.

In that case, the report generator still reports that one of them is the "Oldest" and the other one is the "youngest". This is a mistake!!

I think that if there is no information about the year of birth of the entire siblings, and the "Children Order" feature on Genopro, has not been changed manually, this information should not be included in the report, because it is based on a random order that we add those children to the Genogram, and not based on facts.

By GenoProSupport - Tuesday, November 21, 2006
I agree displaying the child order is a mistake if the order is unknown.  One solution could be a checkbox named Unknown Child Order.
By rdn - Tuesday, November 21, 2006
I think that there is no need for a special checkbox.  Only need to determine what is appropriate as far as the report is concerned:

1. If there are birth dates (or ages), that would determine child order

2. If a child order exists that would determine what is written in the report

3. Otherwise, simply state the names of the children (perhaps in alphabetical order), without reference to who is oldest and who is youngest.

By GenoProSupport - Tuesday, November 21, 2006
Somehow the report generator must know if the child order is valid.  There is no way for the report generator to know about an invalid child order unless there is a property indicating the order of the children is unknown.
By genome - Tuesday, November 21, 2006
A suggestion: The Family object has two properties for children, Family.Children & Family.Children.Order. I believe that currently the latter is used when the children have been explicitly ordered manually. If it was also used when all dates of birth were present, then the report can be changed only to output details of each child's position if Children.Order was not empty.
By GenoProSupport - Tuesday, November 21, 2006
The tag Family.Children.Order is used internally by GenoPro as a helper to sort the children.  The explicit order specified by Family.Children.Order takes precedence over the date of births of the children.  The tag Family.Children.Order is typically empty if the children have valid date of births and nobody was adopted.
By beraha - Tuesday, November 21, 2006
Another issue -

If we know that a person has 3 children for sure, but we believe that he has another son, so we can mark the checkbox: "possibly more children", under the family properties.

The report generator still reports that "A is oldest of three children" without saying that there is possible for more children to that family.

By genome - Wednesday, November 22, 2006
Certainly the Report should not be presenting invalid information. It is better to have no information rather than incorrect information. I propose to change it such that the child rank statement is onlygenerated when Family.Children.Order is not empty and Family.FamilyLine is not set or is set to 'No More Children'.

This will have the side effect of not displaying the child rank even if all dates of birth are present unless the 'Change Children Order' dialogue is invoked under the 'Family Properties' Summary tab and the radio button beside 'Use the child order from the list below' is set.
By GenoProSupport - Thursday, November 23, 2006
The tag Family.Children.Order is used internally by GenoPro.  The tag Family.Children.Order could be renamed to Family.Children.OrderExplicit to make things clearer.

I would say 99% of families have a valid child order even if if Family.Children.Order is empty.  The solution is having a checkbox like Unknown Child Order.

By beraha - Thursday, November 23, 2006
I agree with dan about the checkbox : Unknown Child Order. if this checkbox is marked, then the report generator will not display the child order.

 

I also suggest that if the option "possibly more children" or the option: "to be completed", is selected, there will be a note of that issue on the report, like:  "A is oldest of three children (possibly more siblings) "

By Poolzone - Thursday, November 23, 2006
The solution is having a checkbox like Unknown Child Order.

I agree that this is the most appropriate method of overcoming this problem, but

Might I suggest that the Family Properties dialog could be used, so that where Family Line field entered as "To be completed" refers to this incomplete information and hence the report writer could ignore child oder where dates are not present.

By beraha - Thursday, November 23, 2006
poolzone (11/23/2006)
The solution is having a checkbox like Unknown Child Order.

I agree that this is the most appropriate method of overcoming this problem, but

Might I suggest that the Family Properties dialog could be used, so that where Family Line field entered as "To be completed" refers to this incomplete information and hence the report writer could ignore child order where dates are not present.

 

I do Not agree. I think that The option "To be completed" may refer to many situations that you want to complete in the future about this family, and not just for the case that we know who are the children of a person (All of them), but we just don't know their order.

By Poolzone - Thursday, November 23, 2006
I think that The option "To be completed" may refer to many situations that you want to complete in the future about this family, and not just for the case that we know who

I was looking for a solution that would be easily and quickly implemented to overcome the problem.

I cannot think of any reasons that we would use the field entry 'to be completed' that would infer we know for sure the oldest or youngest child? Of course I don't know everything yetSmile If the dates were entered then the probem does not arise, and the report is correct relative to 'known' children.

Perhaps we might need a temporary fix to this problem, by adjusting the report before programming fixes sometime in the future. But I do agree that in the long term that a field should be allocated to suggest that all children are present.

By genome - Friday, November 24, 2006
It is amazing how one little sentence has generated so much discussion!

My latest suggestion is:

1. If adopted or foster siblings present or any form of multiple birth (twins, triplets etc.) then omit the 'child rank' phrase.

2. If dates of birth missing and order not set via 'Change Children Order', then again omit the 'child rank phrase'.

3. If 'Family Line' is set to 'Possibly more children' or 'to be completed' then qualify the statement with 'known' e.g.

'Ron is the third oldest of the six known children'

By TasKiNG - Saturday, November 25, 2006
Ron,

Great suggestion, that should fix it and still give usefull information.

Its the only thing stopping me putting my tree online so looking forward to the fix Smile