By appleshaw - Monday, November 19, 2007
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Ron Any help appreciated In early 19th century - and earlier - family history there are many times when a link might be established as either probable or only possible. As the idea of fostering is fairly recent, I only use adoption where children are taken over by other people (normally relatives) This means that the Foster link is not used and can be used to indicate where more work is needed. The use of a dotted line is useful for this and I change the colour to make it stand out.
I then realised that it should be possible to modify a Custom Skin to show the words 'probable' etc instead of Foster. I first hacked at Dictionary.xml but this is not enough and may be completely the wrong place, although a Report did emerge with no obvious changes. I then found that Lang.vbs also contains Foster information but this is less direct ie seems to be using variables to construct the text. Before I get completely confused, could you advise me which files need to be modified for this - or am I trying something that is not really going to work?
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By GenoProSupport - Monday, November 19, 2007
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Maybe the changes should be done in GenoPro rather than the report generator. There are two posts somewhat similar to your suggestion: Probables or Possibles Child and/or adopted by father or adopted by mother. Suggestions are welcome.
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By appleshaw - Monday, November 19, 2007
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Maybe the changes should be done in GenoPro rather than the report generator. Agree with that. It has been raised at Uncertain Pedigree link. However this is a temporary work-around as I assume it can not get into the final update of GenoPro2007.
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By IainTait - Tuesday, November 20, 2007
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GenoProSupport (11/19/2007) Maybe the changes should be done in GenoPro rather than the report generator.I would also appreciate this possibility for indicating "possible/probable" children as I also use the census returns for my England research on line. England only has the BMD Indexes whereas Scotland also has the images of the full BMD Entries showing parents and full dates and places at Scotlands People though this is not free. I have many entries in my tree that are taken from Census images or extracts that I would like to indicate as "possible" with a broken line different from "adopted" or "foster" I am preparing for my major Christmas update of my trees.
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By genome - Tuesday, November 20, 2007
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appleshaw (11/19/2007)
Maybe the changes should be done in GenoPro rather than the report generator. Agree with that. It has been raised at Uncertain Pedigree link. However this is a temporary work-around as I assume it can not get into the final update of GenoPro2007. A (interim?) solution could be to define two Custom Tags for Pedigree Links, CertaintyLevel & CertaintyParent. The first would have values 0=definite (default), 1=probably, 2=possibly, 3=perhaps. The second tag indicates about which parent the uncertainty exists : 0=father, 1=mother, 2=both. These would be translated via the Dictionary when generating a Narrative Report. So we would have: Jane's father is possibly John Doe and her mother is Mary Bloggs. or if CertaintyParent=2 and level=1 Jane's father is probably John Doe and her mother is probably Mary Bloggs.
On the parents page maybe the child's name under the Children subsection could be qualified with the uncertainty level e.g. Jane Doe (John Doe is possibly her father)
It would be nice to show a probable link as a dotted line. But although GenoPro allows you to make a dotted line (i.e. foster link) solid, contrarily it does not allow a solid line to become dotted! It would be better if the 'solid line' check box in the Pedigree Link Properties was ticked when the line is solid by default, and allow the user to uncheck it to produce a dotted line when required.
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By IainTait - Tuesday, November 20, 2007
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Ron (11/20/2007) A (interim?) solution could be to define two Custom Tags for Pedigree Links, CertaintyLevel & CertaintyParent. The first would have values 0=definite (default), 1=probably, 2=possibly, 3=perhaps. The second tag indicates about which parent the uncertainty exists : 0=father, 1=mother, 2=both.I haven't yet got my head round all these CustomTags so would prefer it to be a part of GenoPro with an option in the pedigree link drop down menu. It would be a lot simpler for the less technically minded like me.
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By GenoProSupport - Tuesday, November 20, 2007
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Ron's post gave me a couple ideas. One would be to have another type of link named "possible child". I am not sure if this link should be an upgrade of the current pedigree link, or a separate type of link possibly named "possible child" connecting two individuals directly rather than an individual to a family. I am more in favor of a separate link because there is a lot of heavy code already under the current Pedigree Link. The current pedigree link is the backbone to locate parents, children, siblings, ancestors and descendants. Changing the internal structure of the current pedigree link is quite a task and risky. On the other hand, a new type of object, similar to the pedigree link is much easier. Also, it would be easier to query those "probable children" by just quering how many such links are connected to an individual.
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By rboshuis - Wednesday, November 21, 2007
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Since foster childs are not working properly (see my latest comment on this, without any reactions so far) I doubt whether any new kind of non-natural relation is going to work well. The problem lies in the timeline where the foster child is not properly handled. rgds, Ronald
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By GenoProSupport - Wednesday, November 21, 2007
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I would like to know how you would like to have possible child displayed. Would the following display be ok, or you prefer a pedigree link named "possible child"?
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By IainTait - Wednesday, November 21, 2007
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When a child is born before marriage, I add the father if known with an unmarried link (greyed out). If his name is no known I name him "Unknown" and link the child to the so formed family line. Then I create the main family with husband and all other children are connected to this family line. This way it is clear that the first child is not issue of the father of the other children. I would like to see a simple alternative to "adopted" or "foster" showing the pedigree link as a normal one but with a differently coloured dotted line which gives the title "possible child" or "possible parents" when the report is generated. At the moment I have to colour the pedigree link red and add a text box to indicate that this colour indicates an unsure link for the svg and add some comments to each person. Perhaps the "foster" line could be renamed "probable child" and given a red dotted line, as foster children are usually short term and not related to the host family and whose details could be added to the comments if desired, whereas adopted children become a permanent part of the new adoptive family. Fostering is more a social relationship than a family one, to my mind, as there is no permanent link. This could save making major changes perhaps?
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By GenoProSupport - Wednesday, November 21, 2007
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IainTait (11/21/2007) I would like to see a simple alternative to "adopted" or "foster" showing the pedigree link as a normal one but with a differently coloured dotted line which gives the title "possible child" or "possible parents" when the report is generated.Adding an extra item named "Probable Child" to the pedigree list is very trivial. Perhaps the "foster" line could be renamed "probable child" and given a red dotted line, as foster children are usually short term and not related to the host family and whose details could be added to the comments if desired, whereas adopted children become a permanent part of the new adoptive family. Fostering is more a social relationship than a family one, to my mind, as there is no permanent link. Very smart. The "foster child" relationship was in early version, before the social relationship was there. A foster child is indeed more a social relationship than a pedigree link. This could save making major changes perhaps? Yes indeed. It is always nice to have users posting suggestions. Multiple brains is better than a single brain - for sure! :
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By appleshaw - Thursday, November 22, 2007
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 This is the sort of problem you get from old parish registers (only IGI transcript so far - originals might help). I have used the position on a GenoMap to indicate probable family connection. In some other cases I have added an emotional link to show possible linkages, or used the Foster child link which can be coloured, although the pattern is fixed. One problem here is that there are two possible parents for Thomas Gibson; one record from 1730 and the other from 1735. It is possible to show this either by linking child as foster child or parent to the known marriage (and ignore warning message). The following image shows both versions
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By IainTait - Thursday, November 22, 2007
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GenoProSupport (11/21/2007) Adding an extra item named "Probable Child" to the pedigree list is very trivial. Fostering is more a social relationship than a family one, to my mind, as there is no permanent link. Very smart. The "foster child" relationship was in early version, before the social relationship was there. A foster child is indeed more a social relationship than a pedigree link. Would it take long to do this change to the "foster child" link ? I would like to be able to correct these problems in my tree before I update my web trees this Christmas :
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By GenoProSupport - Thursday, November 22, 2007
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IainTait (11/22/2007)
Would it take long to do this change to the "foster child" link ? I would like to be able to correct these problems in my tree before I update my web trees this Christmas  : I can add new features to GenoPro 2007, but cannot change anything to GenoPro 2007 to honor compatibility with others using GenoPro 2007. I will need to write code to migrate all "foster children" from a pedigree link to a social relationship in order to make room for the "probable child". Before doing this wowever, I want to make sure it is the right thing to do. Early versions of GenoPro Gamma could include the "probable child" link, so you can test it and see if you like it and it gives the results you want. We may discover other side effects of such a link, such as a child having multiple parents and so on. I have a questions regarding foster child. Typically a foster child is taken care by a family; not an individual. So the foster child would still be more a special pedigree link than a social relationship. At the moment the social relationship can link only individuals and/or social entities together, however cannot link the family object.
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By appleshaw - Thursday, November 22, 2007
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I think that I caused a confusion with this thread in that the idea of Foster child and uncertain parentage are two separate issues. In the present setup links are either yes/no, which is fine for genealogy but too exact for family history. So I 'borrowed' the Foster link to show uncertainty, as I do not need it for its original purpose and did not think that it could be added at this stage. I then asked if the Report Generator could be modified to use the Foster link as 'probable' link.
If an additional feature can be added to GenoPro2007 that will be very useful. Otherwise I hope it will soon be available for testing in the next Beta
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By genome - Sunday, November 25, 2007
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I wonder if appleshaw's example is more a case of possible identity rather than possible/probable child/parent? There are two possibilities for the earlier life of Thomas Gibson(1), both of whom have known parent(s). This case could be handled by a new social relationship 'possible identity' or 'possibly the same as'. This could be easily documented in a report under the existing relationships section. A possible/probable child pedigiree link is still required. It could be re-inforced where require with a social relationship indicating the possible/probable parent. I suggest possible is used when there is more than one candidate for a parent.
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By IainTait - Sunday, November 25, 2007
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GenoProSupport (11/22/2007)
Early versions of GenoPro Gamma could include the "probable child" link, so you can test it and see if you like it and it gives the results you want. We may discover other side effects of such a link, such as a child having multiple parents and so on. When can we expect this first Gamma version ?
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By appleshaw - Thursday, January 1, 2009
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Happy New Year to all of you, even if your year starts at a different date.
I have now taken a look at how to indicate probable family connections by adapting the Foster Pedigree link. Although the method suggested by Ron in post #19881, using Custom Tags, is preferable, the rough and ready route involves a 'hack' of Dictionary.xml (see attachment). At present it does not alter the Timeline, which now looks a bit odd but there is always stage 2. Not so easy at first sight. The text shown in the example below works fairly well but where there are definite children of the probable/possible parents then text is of the form "They had a biological son and a biological daughter, named Caleb and Elizabeth. They also had a probable son named Joshua." which is not so good
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By appleshaw - Friday, January 2, 2009
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Having looked at the results of using the earlier version of the Dictionary to replace Foster links with Probable links, I now see that the changes needed for the Timeline are in the same file.
I have attached a revision of the Dictionary from the 2.0.1.7RC4 where there is a cautious replacement of the word 'Foster' with 'probable'. This does lead to some clumsy wording in places eg 'They also had a probable son named Caleb.' which would be better as 'They also probably had a son named Caleb.' However it works at a basic level.
There may be knock on effects from this change. An obvious one is that the Kinship calculator does not work across a 'foster' link. However if you are not sure of the link it probably does not matter.
Hope there are no other problems
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