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Kinship Calculator (NL-BE)

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Author Issue with KinshipParent* tags
Posted Sunday, February 16, 2020 - Post #40299
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I've done some work on  translating the dictionary entries for the Kinship Calculator skin into Dutch. Most of it runs OK but I have an issue with the KinshipParent* tags.
Apparently, it looks as if the <KinshipParents> tag (and the related <KinshipParent_M> and <KinshipParent_F> tags) allow to specify up to 4 previous generations "only" (C1 .. C4).
In Dutch we have distinct names for up to 6 previous generations, so it looks as if I need a C5 and C6 attribute as well.
Is there an easy way to implement this or does it require a change in code?
I've added an overview hereafter.

http://support.genopro.com/Uploads/Images/95d9a4e7-2768-4b35-b270-a50e.jpg
Posted Sunday, February 16, 2020 - Post #40300
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Just found out there is also a name for the -7 generation: oud-over-grootouder.

(I guess there is probably also one for -8 like oud-bet-over-grootouder, and so on ...)
Posted Monday, February 17, 2020 - Post #40304
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This will require some changes to the code but should be fairly straight forward to implement (although I have often been wrong about such predictions in the past Crying )

Can you say how many levels of specific titles there will be and what form a generic title would take for those above the max specific level? e.g. In English after great great grandfather we have 3 x great grandfather or more generally 'n' x great grandfather.

BTW I spent some considerable time last year assisting regislab61 with a French translation and also fixing a number of issues he found in the English version.  For that reason I suggest you use the skin {FR} Tableau des ancêtres communs as the starting point.


'lego audio video erro ergo disco' or "I read, I listen, I watch, I make mistakes, therefore I learn"


Edited: Monday, February 17, 2020 by genome
Posted Monday, February 17, 2020 - Post #40306
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Yes, I've followed the long discussion with regislab61 and I used the French skin do to my initial tests.  On the fly I also discovered the "removed" terminology which I was not aware of.

This being said, I don't believe that the "normal" person who is looking into my genealogy is able to define what I would mean with e.g., "oudgrootvader".  They would simply not know that such a word exists.  Most of the people I know always use simple terminology like "my grandfathers' grandfather" and not "my great-great-grandfather".

So I would limit the use of this terminology to 4 generations up (like it is now C1 - C4) and switch to a different sentence like "You have to go up 6 generations before finding a common ancestor which is XYZ.".  The diagram the person is looking at anyhow explains what we are talking about.
Posted Tuesday, May 26, 2020 - Post #40505
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I have made some amendments to accommodate this requirement.  the amendments are included in skins attached to http://support.genopro.com/Topic40503.aspx

Probably best explained by showing the amended Dictionary entries:

<!-- 0=great/grand/parent names, 1= depth1 > ([Cmax]|| 4) generations?, 2=generations1 - ([Pn] || 2), 3=relationship1 (parents/grandparents etc.), 4=1st individual, 5= depth2>0, 6=generation diff = 0, 7=depth2 > ([Cmax]|| 4), 8=depth2 -2, 9=relationship2, 10=2nd individual, 11=partner1, 12=partner2, 13= Ind1 gender ID, 14=Ind2 gender ID,

Extra attributes in phrase below:  
'Cn' where n=1 to 'Cmax' (default 4) provide relationship names for successive generations of ancestor.
if no. of generations exceed 'Cmax' then attribute 'P'  is used for relationship prefixed by 'n x ',
where n is cardinal no. of generations less value of attribute 'Pn' (default 2).
V="2020.05.05±" -->
<KinshipParent_M T="[{?5}De gemeenschappelijke voorouder ]{0} is de [{1}x ]{3} van {5}[ ({8})][{?4} en [{?!12}[{2}x ]{4} van ]{6} {9})]]." P="overgrootvader" Pn="0" Cmax="6"  C1="vader"  C2="grootvader"  C3="overgrootvader"  C4="betovergrootvader" C5="oudvader" C6="outgrootvader"/>
<KinshipParent_F T="[{?5}De gemeenschappelijke voorouder ]{0} is de [{?1}{2}x ]{3} van ]{6}[ ({9})][{?4} en [{?!12}[{2}x ]{4} van ]{6}[ ({9})]]." P="overgrootmoeder" Pn="0" Cmax="6" C1="moder"  C2="grootmoeder" C3="overgrootmoeder" C4="betovergrootmoeder" C5="oudmoeder" C6="outgrootmoeder" />
<KinshipParents  T="[{?4}De gemeenschappelijke voorouders ]{0} zijn [{1}x ]{3} van {5}[ ({8})][{?4} en [{?!12}[{2}x ]{4} van ]{6}[ ({9})]]." P="overgrootouders" Pn="0" Cmax="6" C1="ouders" C2="grootouders" C3="overgrootouders" C4="betovergrootouders" C5="oudouders" C6="outgrootouders" />


So now the number of specific relationship names for ancestors can be adjusted with the number defined via a 'Cmax' attribute. Generations above this number can use a phrase like: 

      Ancestor is x generations above Target    


'lego audio video erro ergo disco' or "I read, I listen, I watch, I make mistakes, therefore I learn"
Posted Tuesday, June 2, 2020 - Post #40533
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The new KinshipParent* phrases work great.  Thank you for this.

It also took me some time to identify the mechanism used for "in-law" relations.
In Dutch (also in French and German) we only use the in-law terminology for parents, siblings and children.  Moreover, we use a prefix, not a suffix.
This is similar to the "step" prefix you would use in English.  Stepfather (EN) = stiefvader (NL).



Note that we don't have a one-to-one translation for an expression like "granddaughter-in-law".  So I decided to look for a phrase that would generate "de aangetrouwde kleindochter" (a granddaughter by marriage) and not "de kleindochterschoon", which does not mean anything.

For what concerns the KinshipSibling* phrases I could not find a way to activate the relationship prefix argument {4} instead of the relationship suffix argument {5}.  So I replaced argument {5} by a conditional one and moved it forwards in the sentence.

    <!-- 0=1st individual, 1=2nd individual, 2=great/grand etc., 3=depth, 4= relationship prefix, 5=relationship suffix, 6=Ind1 Gender ID, 7=Ind2 Gender ID -->
    <KinshipSiblingNephewNiece_F T="§2 {0} is de [{?5}aangetrouwde ] {2}{4}[{?3=1}[{?9}tweeling]zuster][{?!3=1}nicht] van {1}." V="2020.05.05±" />
    <KinshipSiblingNephewNiece_M T="§2 {0} is de [{?5}aangetrouwde ] {2}{4}[{?3=1}[{?9}tweeling]broer][{?!3=1}neef] van {1}." V="2020.05.05±" />
    
    <!-- ORIGINAL VERSION
    <KinshipSiblingNephewNiece_F T="{0} is de {2}{4}[{?3=1}[{?9}tweeling ]zuster][{?!3=1}nicht]{5} van {1}." V="2020.05.05±" />
    <KinshipSiblingNephewNiece_M T="{0} is de {2}{4}[{?3=1}[{?9}tweeling ]broer][{?!3=1}neef]{5} van {1}." V="2020.05.05±" />
    -->


So far, I'm happy with the results it generates, but maybe this does not look OK to you?
Posted Friday, June 5, 2020 - Post #40543
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A few remarks about the new Kinship Calculator.
Is it possible to generate only the 1st and shortest calculation?
The other calculations only confuse and are often wrong.
In my opinion the calculation of the Kinship Calculator is not correct.
Cousins, cousins always exist only in one plane. 
In the levels above there are uncle, great-uncle etc. and aunt; great-aunt etc.
In the levels below there are nephews and nieces.
I find it difficult to put this into a phrase.
The new phrase:
sMsg = Util.FormatPhrase(Dic("KinshipCousin"), getName(oInd1), Dic.Ordinal(height2 - 1), iDiff, getName(oInd2), sPrefix1, sSuffix1, sGender1, sGender2, Util. FormatPhrase(Dic('KinshipGreatGrand'), (height2>3), (height2 > 6), height2-4, '', 3, sGender1, sGender2), height1 == height2 ? '' : Dic.ordinal(height1 - height2), height2 - 1);
has very good new arguments, but also arguments have been dropped, unfortunately.
The tag can't be extended to KinshipCouson_M, KinshipCouson_F etc., so I have problems generating the phrase.
Before:
<KinshipCousin_M T="[{0} is a [[{?2=0}{8}{4}cousin {1}. degree][{!} {8}{4} Nephew {5} [{1}+1]. Grades]]][ of {3}.]"/>
<KinshipCousin_MF T="[{0} is a [[{?2=0}{8}{4}Cousin {1}. degree][{!} {8}{4} Nephew {5} [{1}+1]. Grades]]][ of {3}.]"/>
<KinshipCousin_MM T="[{0} is a [[{?2=0}{8}{4}Cousin {1}. degree][{!} {8}{4} Nephew {5} [{1}+1]. Grades]]][ of {3}.]"/>
<KinshipCousin_F T="[{0} is a [[{?2=0}{8}{4}Cousin {1}. degree][{!} {8}{4} niece {5} [{1}+1]. Grades]]][ of {3}.]"/>
<KinshipCousin_FM T="[{0} is a [[{?2=0}{8}{4}Cousin {1}. degree][{!} {8}{4} niece {5} [{1}+1]. Grades]]][ of {3}.]"/>
<KinshipCousin_FF T="[{0} is a [[{?2=0}{8}{4}Cousin {1}. degree][{!} {8}{4} niece {5} [{1}+1]. Grades]]][ of {3}.]"/>

Now:
<KinshipCousin T="[{0} is a [[{?2=0}{8}{4}cousin {1}. degree][{!} {8}{4}Nephew or niece {5}[{1}+1]. Grades]]][ of {3}.]"/>
I can't get cousin, cousin, nephew and niece involved separately.

Kinship-Beispiele.rar (3 views, 907.52 KB)
Posted Saturday, June 6, 2020 - Post #40547
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Nand  and Albertsali,

I am looking into both these issues and working on solutions.

For Nand's issue, I propose that the affixes Step, Half & InLaw can all be either prefix or postfix, and the defaults can be overridden with the P attribute on their respective phrases, so that we can have e.g.

<KinshipInLaw T="aangetrouwde" P="pre" />  <!-- can also have _M and/or _F -->


Whilst for Albertsali I can add extra parameters to KinshipCousin/Cousin1 phrases for height2 and Dic.Ordinal(height2) - i.e. {1}+1
and I will also look at how the phrase can be amended to accommodate the phrases you provided in the PDF you attached. If you have a solution before me please post it.

The gender specific variants of the Cousin phrases can be removed as gender parameters are provided e.g. for old KinshipCousin we can say

<!-- 0=1st individual, 1=first/second/third (depth2-1), 2=difference, 3=2nd individual, 4=relationship prefix, 5=relationship suffix, 6=Ind1 Gender ID, 7=Ind2 Gender ID, 8=relation to earlier level cousins, 9= Ordinal form of 2 (difference), 10=depth2 - 1 V="2020.05.05±"   -->
<KinshipCousin T="[{0} ist ein[{?6=F}e] ]{4}Cousin[{?6=F}e]{5} {1}. Grades[{?!2=0}[{?2=1} (][{!}[{?2=2} (Ur-][{!} ({2}x Ur-]]Gross[{?6=M}neffe][{!}nichte])][ von {3}.]"/>
 



I hope to deliver the solutions in a couple of days.



'lego audio video erro ergo disco' or "I read, I listen, I watch, I make mistakes, therefore I learn"
Posted Saturday, June 6, 2020 - Post #40549
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Here is my old Kinship calculator skin, with the Kinship.js from back then.
It had (almost) done what I had imagined. Now it has become heavier, 
a combination of old and new Kinship.js could be good (I imagine)
Your new KinshipCousin phrase does not yet create what I would like it to do.
This will be up to me, don't get along so well with the phrase editor yet.
Being brewed:
>if {?!2=0} and {6=M} then cousin otherwise cousine, but if {2< not 0 >} and {6=M} then nephew otherwise niece x. degree.
Too much for me!



Old-Kinship.rar (2 views, 81.22 KB)

Edited: Sunday, June 7, 2020 by albertsali
Posted Thursday, June 11, 2020 - Post #40555
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Well after a near disaster accidentally deleting several files, I offer my next attempt at improving the German and Belgian translations of the Kinship Calculator.  

I have changed the meaning of the prefix and suffix arguments used in several phrases.  What was 'prefix' is now just 'step, half or null'  and suffix is now 'inlaw or null'.  So the content is the same but there is no implied positioning and it is down to the translator to position in the phrase.  KinshipCousin and KinshipCousin1 phrases have additional arguments (number value and ordinal value)  for 'height2' i.e the depth of 2nd individual below common ancestor.  This allows phrasing as per Albertsali's requirement.

I have adjusted the DE and NL-BE Dictionary.xml files to implement the desired phrase changes.

The attached zip file contains revisions for {DE} Verwandtschaft{NL-BE} Verwantschap Schema and  Common folders.  

It also contains a new skin to implement a shared dictionary.  At the time of writing I am only aware of one translator using a combined dictionary for all his skins, that is Nand and so for the time being there is only  {NL-BE} Gedeeld Voordenboek but the script is generic and can be adapted for other languages once a combined dictionary has been assembled.  When this skin is run it will find skins folders with the same language prefix and replace Dictionary.xml in those folders with a 'hard link' to its own Dictionary.xml  and thus any future changes to that Dictionary will be reflected in the other folders as well.  The script requires elevated privilege to run the 'mklink' command and so a Windows UAC prompt is generated when run.

One caveat with the Shard Dictionary approach is that I have noticed that if changes are made whilst the GenoPro Generate Report dialogue is open on one of the related skins then after the update GenoPro fails to find Dictionary entries.  It is necessary to close the dialogue and reopen it once or sometimes twice. 

Please treat the revised skins with caution, e.g. unzip into a new Report Skins folder leaving your current Skins safe. 


'lego audio video erro ergo disco' or "I read, I listen, I watch, I make mistakes, therefore I learn"


Skins2020 test.zip (4 views, 1.71 MB)

Edited: Thursday, June 11, 2020 by genome


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