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While translating I bumped into serious problem. How to distinquish between, for example,
1. Babtism <> Christening (both in Finnish: kaste, kastajaiset)
2. Burial <> Entombment (both in Finnish: hautaus)
3. Minister <> Priest (both in Finnish: pappi)
4. Reverend <> Pastor (both in Finnish: pastori)??
I believe at least the Officiator titles vary between countries and churches (Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican...), but I'm pretty sure this is a problem for many common users who are trying to choose the right alternative from the droplist and something should be done about it.
I propose a short text description (or a "tooltip") as there already is for Emotional Relationships.
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Would it be better to have the officiator as free text?
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Though I like having lists from where to choose, it indeed might be a good idea having this one free text because there are so many possibilies for officiator title (in addition to the current list there might be Judges, Ship Captains, Presidents, and so on...).
Therefore, I would vote for free text.
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At first, there was no officiator, as the name Priest was used for baptism. Then, someone mentioned me a Rabbi would be a better name, depending on the religion. So, I created a list of two officiators: Priest and Rabbi. Since then, the list grew to a point it is no longer useful to have a fixed set of values.Fixed values are great to compile statistics about religions or such, however when there are too many I think it is better to have free text.
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GenoProSupport (1/8/2007)
Fixed values are great to compile statistics about religions or such, however when there are too many I think it is better to have free text.
But isn't it so that when typing in, for example, Job Title/Profession it both autofills the field if text is previously entered and indicates the number how many times it is mentioned within the report. E.g. "Farmer 10". So, if Officiator field could work the same way, isn't this the solution? E.g. "Priest 4". Or ido you have other statistics than the count for Officiator in mind?
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Rjn (1/6/2007)
1. Babtism <> Christening (both in Finnish: kaste, kastajaiset)
2. Burial <> Entombment (both in Finnish: hautaus)
Could anyone help me with this one? What is the distinction between Babtism and Christening, and between Burial and Entombment? What do we mean by them? How do *you* pick between them? What is the 'official' 'definition' for each?
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Depends on church to some extent.
As far as the LDS are concerned, and they are an important source of data and the people who define Gedcom, Christening is performed by other churches; Baptism is admission to the LDS.
My wife tells me that the difference between the two is that Baptism implies a personal acceptance of admission to the church and so can only apply to adults. So christening is for young children and baptism is for adults.
(The LDS view on this is that other churches baptism is classified as adult christening, with a separate gedcom code)
Further complication in the UK is that the Church Register is called Baptism although in most cases the ceremony is strictly a christening.
Other variations of definition occur. Baptism in some cases implying total immersion.
My solution is to ignore these differences - but I am not a religious follower. It is up to you to decide how to treat the data you collect.
As to burial/entombment; to me burial implies burial in the ground. Suggest you try to Google or consult Wikipedia if it is important
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Another distinction is that baptism is not confined to the Christian religion (whereas Christening obviously is) - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism. In that sense Christening is a subset of baptism.Entombment refers to the laying of the body within a tomb or mausoleum, usually above ground.
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Thanks for your views and comments!
appleshaw (1/9/2007)
My wife tells me that the difference between the two is that Baptism implies a personal acceptance of admission to the church and so can only apply to adults. So christening is for young children and baptism is for adults.
This is how I might have reasoned it, too, because there is a practical difference between being joint to the Church as a baby of its parent's will and joining the Church as a conscious adult of one's own will. In addition, Christening (as defined now baby babtism) serves as the ceremony in which the child is given its name.
However, as you told there are other definitions and it is quite a problem because...
appleshaw (1/9/2007)
My solution is to ignore these differences - but I am not a religious follower. It is up to you to decide how to treat the data you collect.
... I think we should NOT leave Genopro user in a situation that he/she doesn't even know what a certain option means! (and because as a maths student I'd like the definitions to be exact.   It mustn't depend on the user. Each option should be specified so that the user can always pick the right one without ambiguity. Otherwise it is pointless to have options from where to pick, and it would be better off to have free text field.
appleshaw (1/9/2007)
As to burial/entombment; to me burial implies burial in the ground. Suggest you try to Google or consult Wikipedia if it is important
How about changing 'Burial' into 'Ground Burial' then, to reduce ambiguity? I found the other day a page that was full of information about burial and entombment, but again these were pretty much used as synonyms. Even Collins English Dictionary defines:
Entomb 1 to place in or as if in a tomb; bury; inter. 2 to serve as a tomb for.
burial the act of burying, esp. the interment of a dead body.
These topics are important because it will greatly affect the translation and also the Report Generator.
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I have also read that 'christening' is an old name for baby baptism, however I have 'christenings' at age 11 as well. I myself was 'christened' as a baby, (now atheist) and the term 'christening' is still in common use, indeed many of us once referred to our first names as Christian names, some still do. Christening, as the name suggests, can only apply to Christian religions, whereas I understand other religions also have baptisms. When I look up a name on the IGI, the word 'Christening' appears, but if I look up the same person in the transcript of Parish Church records, it is listed under Baptisms. So I say keep both. If know that at the time of event it was referred to as a Christening, I use that, otherwise I use baptism.
On another point, my main argument against 'free text' for the officiator field (and others) is that fixed values aid language translation via the Dictionary. It would be much more difficult to translate free text in this way. In the case of Officiator the title field can be left blank and the title included with the officiator name (but no translation possible). Certainly in England there are differences between minister & priest, reverend & pastor.
'lego audio video erro ergo disco' or "I read, I listen, I watch, I make mistakes, therefore I learn"
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