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Approximate year & different calendars (Gregorian, Julian, Hebrew,...

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Author How to show an approximate date?
Posted Friday, March 3, 2006 - Post #10509
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How can I show the date as approximate only? I've tried using abt & c . Is there another way?

g_in_ger

Edited: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 by GenoProSupport

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Posted Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - Post #11378
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It is possible the conversion of months is wrong.  In fact, I just noticed I forgot the 13th month in the Hebrew calendar Blush.  This is really embarassing. Can someone tell me what is the proper date (in the Hebrew calendar) and I will adjust/rotate the months so they appear correct. This is the output from GenoPro:

Output from GenoPro
Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Tuesday, June 06, 2006
Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: יום רביעי, מרץ 11, 5766
Months in the Hebrew calendar:
Month #1 (Jan): ינואר
Month #2 (Feb): פברואר
Month #3 (Mar): מרץ
Month #4 (Apr): אפריל
Month #5 (May): מאי
Month #6 (Jun): יוני
Month #7 (Jul): יולי
Month #8 (Aug): אוגוסט
Month #9 (Sep): ספטמבר
Month #10 (Oct): אוקטובר
Month #11 (Nov): נובמבר
Month #12 (Dec): דצמבר
Month #13 (Sol):

Yehudad (6/6/2006)
I have someone who died on 30 Nov 1984. Converting to the Hebrew calander with Hebrew (English) is working great. It is converted to 7 Kislev 5745, which is wrong. It suppose to be 6 Kislev 5745.

The date conversion from Gregorian calendar to Hebrew is not always accurate.  Depending on the time of the day, the same date may be span two days in the Hebrew calendar.  In the Hebrew calendar, the day starts at sunset (Genesis, Ch.1 v.5); but for lunar-based calendar calculation, the zero-hour used is at 1800h (6 p.m.) civil time, or Jerusalem meridian 2 hours 21 minutes East of Greenwich time.  As a result, someone who died after 6 p.m. will not be on the same day on the Gregorian calendar than someone who died in the morning.

Edited: Tuesday, June 6, 2006 by GenoProSupport

Posted Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - Post #11382
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The date conversion from Gregorian calendar to Hebrew is not always accurate.  Depending on the time of the day, the same date may be span two days in the Hebrew calendar.  In the Hebrew calendar, the day starts at sunset (Genesis, Ch.1 v.5); but for lunar-based calendar calculation, the zero-hour used is at 1800h (6 p.m.) civil time, or Jerusalem meridian 2 hours 21 minutes East of Greenwich time.  As a result, someone who died after 6 p.m. will not be on the same day on the Gregorian calendar than someone who died in the morning.

I'm well aware of that calculation. Can you add a checkbox for after sunset indication? If this checkbox is checked then you take the following Hebrew date. Thus, 6 Jun 2006 without the checkbox checked will be 11 Sivan 5766 and with the checkbox checked it will be 12 Sivan 5766?

Edited: Tuesday, June 6, 2006 by GenoProSupport

eu7
Posted Monday, December 4, 2006 - Post #14973
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Aren't there simple programs out there that quickly calculate the appropriate Hebrew date from a Gregorian date? 

I agree that some kind of "after sunset" check would be necessary.

BTW the thirteenth month is Adar II which comes about every few years, seemingly in no simple order, so the above program is necessary.

Uri

Posted Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - Post #11385
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I now have the following output:

Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Tuesday, June 06, 2006
Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: 5766 סיוון 11   DayOfWeek: יום רביעי

Months in the Hebrew calendar:
Month #1 (Jan): ניסן
Month #2 (Feb): אייר
Month #3 (Mar): סיוון
Month #4 (Apr): תמוז
Month #5 (May): אב
Month #6 (Jun): אלול
Month #7 (Jul): תשרי
Month #8 (Aug): חשוון
Month #9 (Sep): כסלו
Month #10 (Oct): טבת
Month #11 (Nov): שבט
Month #12 (Dec): אדר
Month #13 (Sol): אדרב

GenoPro will eventually support time (hours & minutes), so there will be no need to have a checkbox to specify if the event occurred before or after the sunset.

Edited: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 by GenoProSupport

Posted Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - Post #11387
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GenoPro will eventually support time (hours & minutes), so there will be no need to have a checkbox to specify if the event occurred before or after the sunset.

What if I don't know the time? I think it will be easier on you if you have the checkbox. Time can not tell you if it is before or after sunset. For example 19:00 on winter is after sunset while on summer it is still day. You will have to know the exact time of sunset to know if you have to change dates.

Edited: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 by GenoProSupport

Posted Thursday, June 8, 2006 - Post #11450
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Can someone confirm the date conversions from Gregorian to Hebrew are correct at page http://familytrees.genopro.com/DateConvertCalendar.aspx?
Posted Thursday, June 8, 2006 - Post #11460
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GenoProSupport (6/8/2006)
Can someone confirm the date conversions from Gregorian to Hebrew are correct at page http://familytrees.genopro.com/DateConvertCalendar.aspx

Yes the date as it appears in the page you mentioned is correct, in the Gregorian and the Hebrew calandar. Just Remember that after sunset the Hebrew calander will advance to the next day. Wink

Edited: Friday, June 9, 2006 by GenoProSupport

Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 - Post #11557
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After revising my code, came to the conclusion the Hebrewmonths were not rotated properly.  Is this correct?

Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Friday, June 16, 2006
Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: 5766 סיוון 20   DayOfWeek: יום שישי

Months in the Hebrew calendar:
Month #1 (Nisan): ניסן
Month #2 (Iyyar): אייר
Month #3 (Sivan): סיוון
Month #4 (Tamuz): תמוז
Month #5 (Av): אב
Month #6 (Elul): אלול
Month #7 (Tishrei): תשרי
Month #8 (Cheshvan): חשוון
Month #9 (Kislev): כסלו
Month #10 (Tevet): טבת
Month #11 (Shvat): שבט
Month #12 (AdarI): אדר
Month #13 (AdarII): אדרב


Edited: Friday, June 16, 2006 by GenoProSupport

Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 - Post #11562
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After revising my code, came to the conclusion the Hebrewmonths were not rotated properly.  Is this correct?

Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Friday, June 16, 2006
Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: 5766 סיוון 20   DayOfWeek: יום שישי

Yes. This is the correct date.

Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 - Post #11563
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Yehudad (6/16/2006)
Yes. This is the correct date.

Great.  The changes will be in Beta 16d.

Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 - Post #11564
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Great.  The changes will be in Beta 16d.

Will this fix will solve the problem I have with converting Gregorian years to Hebrew years?

Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 - Post #11566
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Yehudad (6/16/2006)
[Will this fix will solve the problem I have with converting Gregorian years to Hebrew years?

Nope.  What you are asking is nearly impossible because the date parser is not capable to recognize two years within the same date.  If you enter a year in a given calendar, GenoPro will do its best to approximate this year in a different calendar, however it may not be the exact year because some years to "overlap".

By the way,  I have fixed the problem of a date being one day off, from the Gregorian calendar to the Hebrew calendar.  I am using the page http://familytrees.genopro.com/DateConvertCalendar.aspx as the reference.

Posted Friday, June 16, 2006 - Post #11572
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Nope.  What you are asking is nearly impossible because the date parser is not capable to recognize two years within the same date.  If you enter a year in a given calendar, GenoPro will do its best to approximate this year in a different calendar, however it may not be the exact year because some years to "overlap".

By the way,  I have fixed the problem of a date being one day off, from the Gregorian calendar to the Hebrew calendar.  I am using the page http://familytrees.genopro.com/DateConvertCalendar.aspx as the reference.

There are more than a few cases in a family tree that you only have a year as approximate date. GenoPro must have some logic to deal with such dates. In my example I told you that the conversion resulted in -262 which is simply an error. It means that the calander is not working.

If you try to convert just a year in the page http://familytrees.genopro.com/DateConvertCalendar.aspx you will get an application error. As I said in that discussion GenoPro need to find a way to convert, otherwise many people in the family tree will have meaningless numbers as dates. As I said there 2006 can be 5766 as it is the Hebrew year for most of 2006. Only in September/October it changes to 5767. So 5766 can be the Hebrew year for 2006, when only a year is the date.

The same applies to any other year.

Posted Sunday, June 18, 2006 - Post #11581
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GenoPro does not support negative years yet.  If you switch calendars, make sure the dates range from 0001 AD to 9999 AD in the Gregorian calendar.
Posted Sunday, June 18, 2006 - Post #11583
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GenoPro does not support negative years yet.  If you switch calendars, make sure the dates range from 0001 AD to 9999 AD in the Gregorian calendar.

It is!!!

I sent you an email in this regard. I do have a valid year! I have someone who was born Abt 1980. This is what I have, just the year (approximate age). The conversion is to a negative number! Try entering just 1980 in the page you mentioned without any day or month - you will get an application error!

Edited: Sunday, June 18, 2006 by Yehudad

Posted Sunday, June 18, 2006 - Post #11584
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You are right.  Entering Abt 1980 (Gregorian) gives ~5740 (Hebrew) on the debug build, however on the release version, the result is a negative number.  I spend 99.9% of my time testing the debug version because it has internal sanity checks for data integrity.

This time, it is the opposite; the debug build works fine and the release version doesn't work. I am investigating this. 

Posted Sunday, June 18, 2006 - Post #11586
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I found what the problem was. Somehow the compiler optimized the code by calling the functions in a different order.

c = FunctionA() + FunctionB()

On my debug build, FunctionA was called before FunctionB, however on the release build (the one you got), it is FunctionB which was called first, followed by FunctionA.  Well, in the case of converting dates to a different calendar, FunctionA may change some values for FunctionB.  Calling FunctionB first produces the wrong result.

The result was a garbage date value.  If you download Beta 16e, the date conversion whould work fine.

Edited: Sunday, June 18, 2006 by GenoProSupport

Posted Sunday, June 18, 2006 - Post #11588
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Thanks a lot. It looks much better Smile Hehe

Edited: Sunday, June 18, 2006 by GenoProSupport
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006 - Post #11737
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Not sure whether to report this here as a feature, or a new topic under bug.

If you have a range of dates for people, some are under Julian calendar but in UK this was replaced in 1754 (or 5 - can not remember at present) So after that date entries were Gregorian. It does not seem possible to have different calendars on the same GenoMap or even the same file. I am trying to alter existing data, not enter new information

Second I have found that entering 'Abt 1562' is converted to ~1562 in the Birth/Properties table but the display only shows 1562.

Finally if I use the year 1562/63 in the table it is accepted, sort of, in that the table shows 1562/63 against a pink background but nothing appears on the display
Posted Sunday, July 2, 2006 - Post #11741
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The current design allows only one calendar at the time.  GenoPro cannot display a date in Gregorian and Hebrew calendar simultaneously.
Posted Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - Post #11386
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I now have the following output:
Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Tuesday, June 06, 2006
Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: 5766 סיוון 11   DayOfWeek: יום רביעי

This is the correct Hebrew date. Smile

GenoProSupport (6/6/2006)
Months in the Hebrew calendar:


Month #1 (Jan): ניסן
Month #2 (Feb): אייר
Month #3 (Mar): סיוון
Month #4 (Apr): תמוז
Month #5 (May): אב
Month #6 (Jun): אלול
Month #7 (Jul): תשרי
Month #8 (Aug): חשוון
Month #9 (Sep): כסלו
Month #10 (Oct): טבת
Month #11 (Nov): שבט
Month #12 (Dec): אדר
Month #13 (Sol): אדרב

What is the meaning of the month in brackets?

Posted Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - Post #11381
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It is possible the conversion of months is wrong.  In fact, I just noticed I forgot the 13th month in the Hebrew calendar Blush.  This is really embarassing. Can someone tell me what is the proper date (in the Hebrew calendar) and I will adjust/rotate the months so they appear correct. This is the output from GenoPro:

Output from GenoPro
Months in the Hebrew calendar:
Month #1 (Jan): ינואר
Month #2 (Feb): פברואר
Month #3 (Mar): מרץ
Month #4 (Apr): אפריל
Month #5 (May): מאי
Month #6 (Jun): יוני
Month #7 (Jul): יולי
Month #8 (Aug): אוגוסט
Month #9 (Sep): ספטמבר
Month #10 (Oct): אוקטובר
Month #11 (Nov): נובמבר
Month #12 (Dec): דצמבר
Month #13 (Sol):

This is the second mistake. You have the Gregorian months with their translation to Hebrew. The correct one should be:

Month #1 (Tishrei): תשרי
Month #2 (Cheshvan): חשוון
Month #3 (Kislev): כסלו
Month #4 (Tevet): טבת
Month #5 (Shevat): שבט
Month #6 (Adar): אדר
Month #7 (Nisan): ניסן
Month #8 (Iyar): אייר
Month #9 (Sivan): סיוון
Month #10 (Tammuz): תמוז
Month #11 (Av): אב
Month #12 (Elul): אלול
As you saw the Hebrew calander is very problematic. Rosh Hashana which is the holiday of the start of the year is in Tishrei (Month #1), but it is actually Month #7 according to the Bible. The first month is Nisan (Month #7). From what I see, I can only guess that the translation you used is using the Bible method. By that today's month is Sivan which is the 3rd from Nisan, by using the Gregorian calander and it's 3rd month you got March!!

Therefore, I think that the correct order should be:

Month #1 (Nisan): ניסן
Month #2 (Iyar): אייר
Month #3 (Sivan): סיוון
Month #4 (Tammuz): תמוז
Month #5 (Av): אב
Month #6 (Elul): אלול
Month #7 (Tishrei): תשרי
Month #8 (Cheshvan): חשוון
Month #9 (Kislev): כסלו
Month #10 (Tevet): טבת
Month #11 (Shevat): שבט
Month #12 (Adar): אדר
Month #13 (Adar II): אדר ב

in case of a 13 months year Month #12 becomes Adar I - אדר א.

Hope that this is not too confusing...

Posted Tuesday, June 6, 2006 - Post #11380
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GenoPro version: 3.1.0.1

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GenoProSupport (6/6/2006)
This is the output from GenoPro:

Output from GenoPro


Today 's date in the Gregorian calendar: Tuesday, June 06, 2006
Today 's date in the Hebrew calendar: יום רביעי, מרץ 11, 5766

This is the first mistake. The month is wrong. Today's date in the Hebrew calander is 11 Sivan 5766. What you quoted is right in day and year. The Month which is written is March in Hebrew!! it should be סיון, which is how Sivan written in Hebrew.


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Forum Post Approximate year & different calendars (Gregorian, Julian, Hebrew,... By 138298 ( Friday, March 3, 2006 )
Forum Post Actually there is an order for the thirteenth month. It appears 7... By rdn ( Tuesday, December 5, 2006 )
Forum Post Concerning Julian-Gregorian change: not all the countries change at... By fbukolyi ( Sunday, March 5, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]fbukolyi (3/6/2006)[/b][hr]Concerning Julian-Gregorian... By GenoProSupport ( Tuesday, May 16, 2006 )
Forum Post The new date support is cool!! I did found a problem, though. The... By Yehudad ( Monday, June 5, 2006 )
Forum Post It is possible the conversion of months is wrong. In fact, I just... By GenoProSupport ( Tuesday, June 6, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (6/6/2006)[/b][hr]The date conversion from... By Yehudad ( Tuesday, June 6, 2006 )
Forum Post Aren't there simple programs out there that quickly calculate the... By eu7 ( Monday, December 4, 2006 )
Forum Post I now have the following output: [quote]Today 's date in the Gregorian... By GenoProSupport ( Tuesday, June 6, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (6/6/2006)[/b][hr]GenoPro will eventually... By Yehudad ( Tuesday, June 6, 2006 )
Forum Post Can someone confirm the date conversions from Gregorian to Hebrew are... By GenoProSupport ( Thursday, June 8, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (6/8/2006)[/b][hr]Can someone confirm the... By Yehudad ( Thursday, June 8, 2006 )
Forum Post After revising my code, came to the conclusion the Hebrewmonths were... By GenoProSupport ( Friday, June 16, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (6/16/2006)[/b][hr]After revising my code,... By Yehudad ( Friday, June 16, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]Yehudad (6/16/2006)[/b][hr]Yes. This is the correct... By GenoProSupport ( Friday, June 16, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (6/16/2006)[/b][hr]Great. The changes will... By Yehudad ( Friday, June 16, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]Yehudad (6/16/2006)[/b][hr][Will this fix will solve the... By GenoProSupport ( Friday, June 16, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (6/16/2006)[/b][hr]Nope. What you are asking... By Yehudad ( Friday, June 16, 2006 )
Forum Post GenoPro does not support negative years yet. If you switch calendars,... By GenoProSupport ( Sunday, June 18, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (6/18/2006)[/b][hr]GenoPro does not support... By Yehudad ( Sunday, June 18, 2006 )
Forum Post You are right. Entering Abt 1980 (Gregorian) gives ~5740 (Hebrew)... By GenoProSupport ( Sunday, June 18, 2006 )
Forum Post I found what the problem was. Somehow the compiler optimized the code... By GenoProSupport ( Sunday, June 18, 2006 )
Forum Post Thanks a lot. It looks much better :) :hehe: By Yehudad ( Sunday, June 18, 2006 )
Forum Post Not sure whether to report this here as a feature, or a new topic... By appleshaw ( Friday, June 30, 2006 )
Forum Post The current design allows only one calendar at the time. GenoPro... By GenoProSupport ( Sunday, July 2, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (6/6/2006)[/b][hr]I now have the following... By Yehudad ( Tuesday, June 6, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (6/6/2006)[/b][hr]It is possible the... By Yehudad ( Tuesday, June 6, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (6/6/2006)[/b][hr]This is the output from... By Yehudad ( Tuesday, June 6, 2006 )
Forum Post By default, all dates entered in GenoPro are assumed to use the... By jcmorin ( Sunday, March 5, 2006 )
Forum Post I understand that the internal storage is in one format. The problem... By appleshaw ( Sunday, March 5, 2006 )
Forum Post The design for the new date format is very flexible and robust. I have... By GenoProSupport ( Sunday, March 5, 2006 )
Forum Post One way round this is to use Ron's gnoutils program and convert dates... By appleshaw ( Saturday, March 4, 2006 )
Forum Post Thank you for the suggestion. g_in_ger By 138298 ( Saturday, March 4, 2006 )
Forum Post I am currently writing the date & time routines for Beta 16. I have... By GenoProSupport ( Saturday, March 4, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]GenoProSupport (3/4/2006)[/b][hr]I am currently writing the... By Yehudad ( Saturday, March 4, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote][b]Yehudad (3/5/2006)[/b][hr]Will your new date & time routings... By GenoProSupport ( Sunday, March 5, 2006 )
Forum Post [quote]The design allows support for multiple calendars. Eventually... By appleshaw ( Sunday, March 5, 2006 )
Forum Post The design allows unlimited number of display formats. It is like... By GenoProSupport ( Sunday, March 5, 2006 )
Forum Post The problem is to display a date from two calendars - the Julian and... By appleshaw ( Sunday, March 5, 2006 )
Forum Post Great. I just met yesterday someone that the Hebrew calandar is very... By Yehudad ( Sunday, March 5, 2006 )



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