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Male /Female question on Sentence

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Author there are a parameter for the gender?
Posted Tuesday, January 23, 2024 - Post #43703
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In Spanish normally the names are without article, but in catalan we are using them

<!--   V="2.0.1.6±" 0=name's, 1=is|was, 2=html father name, 3=his|her, 4=is|was, 5=html mother name, 6=ind alive?, 7=Father alive?, 8=Mother alive?
        Test={0}=Jim's, {1}=is|was, {2}=Arthur|, {3}=his|her, {4}=is|was, {5}=Mary|, {6}=Y|, {7}=Y|, {8}=Y|  -->
<PhParents
T="{ &#32;}{\U}{!0}[ father {!1} {2h}][[{?2} and {!3}] mother {!4} {5h}]."/>

I will translate this sentence like:
         El pare d'en Jordi (male)   or El pare de la Teresa (female)

T="{ &#32;}{\U}[{?2|5}[{?!1}{?2}el pare ][{?!2}la mare ][[{?3=el seu}d'en][{!}de la]] {!0}[ {!1} en {2h}][[{?2} i la seva mare ] {!4} la {5h}].
because the 3 parameter are "el seu" (male) "la seva" (female)

that's work.... i don't know if it's the best solution....



but.... like in french, wenn the name start with wowel, then we use no "de la" Maria, we use "de l'Angels"

(https://www.cursdecatala.com/en/catalan-apostrophe/)


how can I configure this point?

Edited: Tuesday, January 23, 2024 by Jordi-Albert
Posted Thursday, January 25, 2024 - Post #43713
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I have changed the code in the attached replacement Common\Lang.vbs to lookup what I am calling the 'possessive article' depending the gender of the individual and whether or their name starts with a vowel, and pass it to the PhParents phrase as parameter 9.

The Dictionary entries for Catalan 'possessive articles' will be as follows:

<!-- Possessive Article.  
This can have forms PA_M (male), PAv_M (male with vowel as first letter) PA_F (female), PAv_F (female with vowel as first letter) 
e.g. for Catalan --.>

<PA_M T="d'en&#32;"/> 
<PAv_M T="d'en&#32;"/>
 <PA_F T="de la&#32;"/>
 <PAv_F T="de l'"/>

<!-- so Juan will yield d'en Juan, Camila yields de la Camila and Isabella gives de l'Isabella  -->

and so your PhParents phrase can become

T="{ &#32;}{\U}[{?2|5}[{?!1}{?2}el pare ][{?!2}la mare ]{!9}{!0}[ {!1} en {2h}][[{?2} i la seva mare ] {!4} la {5h}]




'lego audio video erro ergo disco' or "I read, I listen, I watch, I make mistakes, therefore I learn"


Lang.vbs (2 views, 121.67 KB)
Posted Thursday, January 25, 2024 - Post #43721
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Thanks... is working

but it's a little more complicated. Sorry...

this change muss be for all the nouns

with your Idea I have found: 

   <ConvertDateSpan T="de ([aeiou])=d'$1:du ([aeiou])=de l'$1:au ([aeiou])=à l'$1:" />

and the idea for French is similar on this case

I suggest:

   <ConvertNounSpan T="el ([aeiouh])=l'$1:la ([aeiouh])=l'$1:en ([aeiouh])=n'$1:na ([aeiou])=n'$1:" />

with this change it will 90% work... but we have some exceptions
                for example, wen the word start with I and on the second position is a vowel         el (i[aeiouh])   ?? or ([i][aeiouh])   will work? (of course, for all the articles el, la, en and na

for the other languages, wen this label is not defined, will no work


what do you think    ????



Note: it muss be for ALL the nouns (name.first) and we d'ont need to change the labels, only one function (and we don't need to have a 9th parameter)

Edited: Thursday, January 25, 2024 by Jordi-Albert
Posted Thursday, January 25, 2024 - Post #43724
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I'm thinking about the pattern and I remember about Vi



https://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/pattern.html

I think that we don't need so complicated pattern but

 [abcd]    = Search one character. it can be a, b, d or d

 (abcd)  = Search the word abcd

 [^abcd]  = search one character it muss not be a, b, c, d

 (^abcd)   = search a word. not abcd
      .         = every caracter = one position
     |          = separator of patterns           (red|yellow|blue|)       may be : (red|yellow|blue|^black)    = red, yellow, blue but not black    ?????
--------------------------
so, if I search for the pattern "F[ae]rr[ae]r"    i will find Farrar, Farrer, Ferrar, Ferrer 
                [ae](^123)[abc]                I will have  a...a, a...b, a....c, e...a, e...b, e...c      where .... is every three letters except 123





it's only one idea....
Posted Friday, January 26, 2024 - Post #43726
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Yes I am quite confused, I have read https://www.cursdecatala.com/en/catalan-apostrophe/ but still have questions. 

With the Narrative Report scripts I hold the name in two forms, first the 'short name', that is normally the person's first name but can be their preferred name from all their forenames, or can be a translated version of their name.  The second is the 'possessive' form of their short name  i.e. 'of Jordi' or Jordi's.

I am very familiar with the 'regular expressions' you describe as these are available in most computer programming languages, but before I can write such an expression I need to understand the rules of grammar for the language e.g. Catalan

So if we want to add a personal article (el, en, la) to their 'short name' how do I decide between el, en or na for a male?

So is it:  en Jordi, el Jordi or na Jordi?   n'Albert or l'Albert?

maybe we need a custom tag Name.Article and assume en_ unless this tag is present with either el_ , na_  ,n' or l'  (where _ represents a space)

Also you mention the case when the name starts with I and is followed by a vowel but you did not say what the rule was, 


so with name Iona, do we say la Iona or l'Iona, (in the expression below I assume la Iona )

we could have a dictionary tag

<ArticledNoun 
     T= "(en )(([AEOUH]|I[^AEOUH]).*)=n'$2:(la )(([AEOUH]|I[^AEOUH}).*)=l'$2:.*=$1$2"
     Article_M = "en&#32;"
     Article_F = "la&#32;"/>   

((([AEOUH]|I[^AEOUH]).*) = name starting with A,E,O,U or H or name starting with I not followed by A,E,O,U or H)
where 1=personal article (from Name.Article or default en (M) or la (F)) and 2=short name

A VBScript function can then use this phrase together with gender, Name.Article and short name to derive the 'articled' name.

Furthermore you included h in your list of 'vowels'.  Is h always treated as a vowel? 

and if we consider 'possessive' forms,

is it:  d'en Jordi or d'el Jordi?  d'en Albert or d'el Albert or even de l'Albert? 

we can have

<PossessiveArcticledNoun T="(en |n')(.*)=d'en $2: (la |l')(.*)=de $1$2"/>

A VBScript function can then use the 'articled' noun to derive the possessive form.


'lego audio video erro ergo disco' or "I read, I listen, I watch, I make mistakes, therefore I learn"


Edited: Friday, January 26, 2024 by genome
Posted Friday, January 26, 2024 - Post #43728
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Thanks... yes, you have right understand the problem

EL and  EN, is Male form
LA und NA, is a Femenine form

You can use both, and the use is more a regional question.

Also in the Balear Insel they use LO and SA....

May be your solution is the best, everyone can decide how to use it... but you need to configure all of them





-----
the letter H have no sound in Catalan and also not in Spanish... is like there is not there. and for this reason, wenn the second letter is AEIOU you need to react like there are in the first position.

Normally all works easy.. but there are exceptions. Wenn the strong part of the sentence ist the first, we made this change, wenn not, then we change nothing.

problem is to know which Words are ... may be an external File wit the exceptions?

I'm working and asking some experts to give you a better reply

thanks
we are in the good way

Edited: Friday, January 26, 2024 by Jordi-Albert
Posted Tuesday, February 6, 2024 - Post #43783
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The use of the article "EL, EN, SO, ES, LA, NA, SA" is more a regional question. In some places is used one of them and in other places people use another article.

I find that the Idea to define a standard one is good.... and the program can make the corrections in every situation.

In Catalan are some exceptions.... exactly with noums are ONLY six exceptions and we think that we don't need to program any exception.

thanks


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