GenoPro Support Forum

"les" -> "aux".

Hi everybody,

This program seems to be wonderfull !!!

Where can I download the French translated files to use it in my native language ?

Doesn't make it any easier I guess.

2) <TheyAlso>
I now wonder why I have "They" & "Also" as Dictionary entries but also there is "TheyAlso". The latter seems superfluous. I will change the the phrases currently using "TheyAlso" to have these as separate terms allowing you to place "aussi" after the verb.

3) <Twins>
I need to allow for a feminine/masculine  version of the the Dictionary "Twins" entry. We will also need entries for Fraternal_F, Identical_F, and maybe Fraternal_M, Identical_M for other languages. These will be in the ReportGenerator section of the Dictionary, not the Enumerations section.

4) <FmtDateRange>

d' is covered in my earlier post. Thanks to the other details.

5) Double space in front of dates (topic 17769 point 5)

&nbsp; is the HTML 'non-breaking space' entity and certainly not a virus. I believe The GenoPro Report Generator replaces all occurences of multiple spaces with one or more &nbsp; entities followed by a space. This is to prevent the browser treating multiple spaces as a single space as it might otherwise do if the &nbsp; had not been substituted.

I almost have a new skin ready that handles all the points you have raised. It may not be ready for 2.0.0.5 but if not I will post it here.

In the meantime, some more FR translation issues.

1) For info, I added, in Dic, the supported _F phrases for <PhPL_adopted> and <PhPL_foster>.

2) <TheyAlso>

The way this phrase is offered for translation is not really suitable for the FR language.
The translation T="Aussi ils" (literally "Also they") is not a smart one. A better grammar construction would be T="Ils {?} aussi" where {?} should replace "ont" (have), "avaient" (had), "sont" (are) or "étaient" (were) depending on the phrases.
Up to Dan to possibly choose an other word for "aussi" in order to possibly avoid the addition/insertion of the {?} param, e.g.: "Additionnellement, ils" or "En addition, ils".

3) <Twins>
Depending on the Inds gender, the translated FR words are:

- For 2 Masc Inds or 1 Masc and 1 Fem, T="jumeaux" (masc plurial noun (Masc takes precedence on Fem))
- for 2 Fem Inds, T="jumelles" (fem plurial noun)

As I've not a clue how to technically translate the associated "fraternal" and "identical" adjectives, I foresee that we'll need some agreement/accords such as:
jumeaux fraternels
jumelles fraternelles

4) <FmtDateRange>
I already posted the subject but I forgot to mention some slight variations when some FR months start with a vowel: avril (april), août (august) and octobre (october).
In this case the basic syntaxes, already mentioned, should change from:

- <FmtSince> "à partir de {0}" when {0} is in the form of M Y or Y     e.g. à partir de mai 1968/1968
- <FmtFromTo> "de {0} à {1}" when {0} & {1} are M Y or Y               e.g. de mai 1968/1968 à juin 1975/1975
- <FmtFromTo> "de {0} au {1}" when {0} is M Y or Y and d is within {1} e.g. de mai 1968/1968 au 15 juin 1975

to:

- <FmtSince> "à partir d'{0}" when {0} is in the form of M or M Y     e.g. à partir d'octobre 1968
- <FmtFromTo> "d'{0} à {1}" when {0} is M or M Y                      e.g. d'avril 1968 à août 1975
- <FmtFromTo> "d'{0} au {1}" when {0} is M Y or Y and d is within {1} e.g. d'août 1968 au 15 octobre 1975

In short, "de " must be replaced with "d'" when in front of avril, août and octobre months. Ron, this is similar/identical to the more general rule you created;
<PossessiveProperNoun T="(^[aeiouyh].*$)=d'$1.*$)=de $1:" />

The FR translations you're asking for are:

 <FmtYMD>[le|environ le|avant le|après le] d MMMM yyyy</FmtYMD>
 <FmtYM>[en |approx. en|avant|après] MMMM yyyy</FmtYM>
 <FmtY>[en|approx. en|avant|après] yyyy</FmtY>
 <FmtMD>[le|approx. le|avant le|après le] D MMMM</FmtMD>

No problem with these ones because no need for prepositions, therefore no change.
"approx." may not be the smartest translation but it suits my humble person fine . Up to Dan's critism or approval.

Addition:

5) Double space in front of dates (topic 17769 point 5)

Ron, I generated a rep with the EN embedded skin of 2.0.0.4. I then edited one of my created Ind.htm file and discovered, in some places in the file, some

additional "&nbsp;" as in this extract:

Claude lived  in <a href='place-place00020.htm' onclick='showPopUpFrame("");' target='popup'>Noisy-le-Sec</a> for seven years and two months from&nbsp; July 10th, 1957 to September 1964.</div><br />

May be the problem is from within Genopro? or I may have a virus?

JC

Thank you,
JC

Edited: Sunday, May 20, 2007 by jcguasp

Having looked more closely at this issue I am abandoning a regular expression substitution solution. It looks even more complex than I thought at first. Maybe I need further guidance on French grammar from any of our French speakers (Jean-Claude (x2) or Dan?)

Playing with Google Translate I get the following examples:

  from Jul 1960 to 21 Oct 1970 => de jui. 1960 au 21 oct. 1970
                 from Oct 1960 until Apr 1970 => à partir d'oct. 1960 jusqu'à à avr. 1970
from Oct 1960 to Apr 1970 => d'oct. 1960 à avr. 1970
               from Jul 1960 to about 21 Oct 1970 => à partir de jui. 1960 environ au 21 oct. 1970
                  from 21 Oct 1960 until 13 Apr 1970 => à partir du 21 oct. 1960 jusqu'au 13 avr. 1970
        from before 21 Oct 1960 until after 13 Apr 1970 => de avant le 21 oct. 1960 jusqu'à l'après le 13 avr. 1970

A possible solution is to change the date span formatting phrases to have the date format each in form:

Some post formatting conversion is still required to change say de avril 1970 environ au août 1971 to d'avril 1970 environ à l'août 1971

Fortunately these regular expression substitutions are simpler 'de ([aeiou])'=d'$1', 'du ([aeiou])=d l'$1' and 'au ([aeiou])=à l'$1'

I only have schoolboy French from over forty years ago and so there must be some schoolboy errors in the above!

1. PhEducation. I should have looked at my code more closely!. I had forgotten that the old Achievement enumeration values where moved to PhEA_ prefixed phrases in the Dictionary. I believe all I need to do is add PhEA_passed and PhEA_failed to these.

2. FmtDateRange. To provide a complete a solution for this I need to know how you are handling approximate dates i.e. what are your translated Dictionary entries for

1. PhEducation. During the Beta program, the Education Achievement property changed from one with a fixed list of options that could be enumerated/translated via the Dictionary to a free text entry, i.e. you do not have to select from the list as you can type in your own value. I believe the drop down list is now a list of all the values previously used in that .gno file. On a new .gno file the initial options supplied by GenoPro are 'passed' or 'failed'. If you entered Achievement before the GenoPro change then some values are not directly useable. I seem to remember that I did and search & replace on my data to correct this.

I will provide Dictionary entries for the special cases 'passed' and 'failed' to provide more suitable text but I suggest they are removed from the default list.

I would not like to see 'Achievement' removed as it is often used to give grades. In your example you might want to say

'He passed examinations in 1974 and achieved a 1st Class Honours Degree.'

So I think Achievement should be blanked when the Termination provides the achievement. But in line with your thinking I would like to see 'Unqualified' added to the Termination list and perhaps "Failed" as well..

We could then say  'He left without gaining any qualifications in 1974.' or 'He left, after failing the exams, in 1974.

'He left  in 1974 without gaining any qualifications.' seems better but this order does not fit with the other Termination reasons.

2. FmtDateRange The phrase generation here is built into GenoPro. Perhaps what is needed is extra optional formatting options:

<FmtSince>&#32;à partir du {0}</FmtSince>       <!-- used as default when no other match --> <FmtSinceYM>&#32;à partir de {0}</FmtSinceYM> <FmtSinceY>&#32;à partir de {0}</FmtSinceY> <FmtUntil>&#32;jusqu'au {1}</FmtUntil>                <!-- used as default when no other match --> <FmtUntilYM>&#32;jusqu'en {1}</FmtUntil> <FmtUntilY>&#32;jusqu'en {1}</FmtUntil> "<FmtFromTo>" should be split into <FmtFrom> and <FmtTo> to avoid to many variations and then <FmtFromTo> used to join the two. i.e. <FmtFrom>du {0}</FmtFrom>               <!-- used as default when no other match --> <FmtFromYM>de {0}</FmtFrom> <FmtFromY>de {0}</FmtFrom> <FmtTo>au {0}</FmtTo>              <!-- used as default when no other match --> <FmtToYM>à {0}</FmtToYM> <FmtToY>à {0}</FmtToY> <FmtFromTo>&#32;{0} {1}<FmtFromTo>

This is a GenoPro Report Generator code change. It would be possible to add a VBScript skin solution by using another regular expression substitution from the Dictionary e.g.

<ConvertDateSpan T="de (\d* \w*) à ([a-z]*|(\d*$))=du $1 à $2:de (\d* \w*)=du $1:"en  (\d* \w*)=au $1:" />

This example deals with the first of your from-to examples and the 'since' and 'until' formats

3) <PhFamilyWith> Difficult one this. We need a way of optionally indicating the required gender of particular parameters being passed to the phrase. The phrase in question is:

<PhFamilyWith T="{3}{0} [{1} ]family with {2}" />

If we could have say

<PhFamilyWith T="{\U}[{1} ]family {0} avec {2}" G1="F"/>

and a way of reading the attribute G1 we would have a solution. For this we need Dic.Lookup or the default Dic, to have an optional 2nd parameter giving the attribute to be obtained. This would allow other attributes to be easily added to Dictionary entries in future

As an interim work-around, if Dan cannot implement this in a short timeframe, we could use the existing Cn attributes that are normally used to denote cardinal forms. Therefore we can write instead

 <!-- 0=Name's, 1=first|second|third|..., 2=spouse name 3=prefix -->
<PhFamilyWith T="{\U}[{1} ]family {0} avec {2}" C1="F"/>

I can then add code to read C1 and supply the cardinal number parameter {1} in the required gender. C1 would be optional so as not to affect other translations if not required.

This technique might well be useful in translations to other languages. So if any translators out there can see where they can use this, please get in touch.

4. I'll check & correct this.

5. I too have noticed the double spacing. On investigation I noticed

 <FmtYMD>[|about |before| after] MMMM D, yyyy</FmtYMD>

should be

  <FmtYMD>[|about |before|after ]MMMM D, yyyy</FmtYMD>

Maybe this is the problem.

1) <PhEducation>
Presently, the param {7} cannot be translated. Even in EN, the phrase seems strange when "passed" & "graduated" have been selected in genopro:

Looking at the Ind panel Edu tab, I wonder if the "Achievement" field couldn't be deleted because the "passed" option is actually already supported within the "Graduated (passed ..." option in the "Termination" field. If yes, it would then be a matter of adding the option "Failed (Didn't pass the examinations)" in the said "Termination" field and the said "Termination" field may be renamed something like "Termination/Achievement".
Worth to look at.

2) <FmtDateRange>
I noticed In FR, the preposition changes depending on the date type, i.e. d M Y, M Y or Y (for clarity, I only shown d, M & Y as 1 digit):

- <FmtSince> "à partir de {0}" when {0} is in the form of M Y or Y        e.g. à partir de mai 1968/1968
- <FmtSince> "à partir du {0}" when d is within {0}                            e.g. à partir du 12 mai 1968

- <FmtUntil> "jusqu'en {1}" when {1} is in the form of M Y or Y             e.g. jusqu'en mai 1968/1968
- <FmtUntil> "jusqu'au {1}" when d is within {1}                                 e.g. jusqu'au 12 mai 1968

- <FmtFromTo> "de {0} à {1}" when {0} & {1} are M Y or Y                 e.g. de mai 1968/1968 à juin 1975/1975
- <FmtFromTo> "du {0} à {1}" when d is within {0} and {1} is M Y or Y  e.g. du 12 mai 1968 à juin 1975/1975
- <FmtFromTo> "du {0} au {1}" when d is within {0} & {1}                   e.g. du 12 mai 1968 au 15 juin 1975
- <FmtFromTo> "de {0} au {1}" when {0} is M Y or Y and d is within {1} e.g. de mai 1968/1968 au 15 juin 1975

Please note that in some other language(s), a proper segregation may be required for M Y and Y.

3) <PhFamilyWith>
With the Config param fHideFamilyDetails="N" and the Dic <Ordinal_1 T="premier">, I got this:

Not correct. I then changed <Ordinal_1> from "premier" to "première" (because famille is a Fem noun) and added {\U} at start of <PhFamilyWith>. I then got:

Correct. But the question is: Don't we need, within another subtitle or bit of phrase, something starting with "premier"?

Not for translation purposes, but I noticed these small details:

4) on the Timeline, a space should be provided after the occupancies titles (Residence, Address, Work Place, ... ).

5) double space in front of dates as shown:

I checked the various <Fmt...> templates in Dic but I cannot see any double space in them! I wonder if an Ltrim(...) may be required on some fields?

Thank you Ron
JC